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Post Info TOPIC: Slow season, few crows


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The NH fall crow season started on 8/15 and we are more than a month into it.  Crows this year are noticably fewer and further between previous seasons.  I have yet to go out and not get a shot at a bird but too often that is all that it has been.

I have taken 71 birds thus far (and the 10ga, full choke and #6 shot has helped a lot).  Sometimes a long shot is all I get.  Looking at my notes I have been out for a couple of hours minimum on 22 days.

Have hunted most of the time with a partner.  Out of 22 days 13 have been 2 birds or less for myself.  Only 2 days have been in double digits, one day was 10 the other 20.  The 20 bird day we shot 39 between us.

Not sure what is going on, we had a dry summer, it's been warm so far.  Corn has come in early but there are few birds in the area.  My guess is local birds have headed south and migrants have not arrived.  Still waiting and hoping for the "Big Push" which usually comes in Oct.

Anybody else experiencing a "slower" than usual season?

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Hi NH,

Nothing much really happening here in north Texas so far...  Probably still just too hot.

Keep your 10 gauge Parker perculating, we enjoy reading about your operations afield, and you certainly earn style points from the entire TCP!

I brought a box of pretty purple Federal 16 gauge shells at Gander Mountain with Lone Star Phil on Friday after our Red River visit and plan to use an estate sale inventory Model 37 Winchester in that chambering on a few crows in the coming weeks before I liquidate it.  I want to add 16 to the 10, 12, 20 gauges and .410 bores I have harvested crows with over the years.  Next up I plan to acquire another 28 gauge, to replace my traded off Browning Model 12, to complete my "crow grand slam" in standard shotgun chamberings.  A man has to have goals!    

Regards,

Gadget Bob

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You the man GB!

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Bob, is that Winchester Model 37 a single shot?

Shayne

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Hi Yote-Five-Seven,

Yes it is...  The old classic Winchester break open single shot.  It will probably kick me pretty good, but I can handle that.

Regards,

Gadget Bob

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Gadget have you ever used a 32gauge, I've heard of them, but never seen or shot one.

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Hi Watch 'em Fall,

I have heard of that guage and some others that I beleive are used in Europe.  My goal is to harvest crows with all of the "standard" American guages.  Some say the 28 gauge "kills" out of proportion of it smaller size.  Apparently it is very well "balanced" ballistically. 

I have used the .410 bore enough to know it is tough to "score" consistently with it.  I

Take Care,

Gadget Bob

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A friend of mine had a 28 gauge double and it was great for him on rabbits, so I'm sure it would have killed crows nicely

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Hi GB,

Unless I'm sadly mistaken, they haven't had ammo for the 32 gauge in over 100 years! The old 32 and 14 gauges were side by side hammer guns. No proof steel in these old shotguns!

In Europe there are still some diehard 16 gauge fans, the 16 is a very nice gauge. But the 12 bore is king both in Europe and the USA.

Bob A.

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32ga new hulls 13 bucks a hundred

www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0643200

also bpi carries all your 16 -28-410 sub gauge hulls wads and other odd size items as
well as load data for them. Check em out
google bpi reloading

-- Edited by jd1983 on Monday 20th of September 2010 08:59:25 AM

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Bob wrote:

In Europe there are still some diehard 16 gauge fans, the 16 is a very nice gauge. But the 12 bore is king both in Europe and the USA.

Bob A.


The 16 gauge fell out of favor in this country when no specific class for it was created in the game of skeet shooting. 

The 10 gauge fell out of favor when it was banned from live pigoen and trap shooting.

The 12 gauge is only King when there is no 10 gauge in the blind or on the line to compete with it biggrin

 



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Hi NH and Bob A.,

I understand the 16 also lost popularity after the 3 inch 20 gauge shell came online.  I have heard people used to say "a 16 hits like a 12 and carries like a 20".

Regards,

Gadget Bob

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Gadget Bob wrote:

Hi NH and Bob A.,

I understand the 16 also lost popularity after the 3 inch 20 gauge shell came online.  I have heard people used to say "a 16 hits like a 12 and carries like a 20".

Regards,

Gadget Bob



 I had heard the same thing too. I believe the 3" "magnum" 20ga came out in the 1920's.  I have seen evidence that Parker built some 16ga guns for 3" shells as well.  Early 3" shells in each gauge existed before the "magnums" came out.  They shot the same weight payload as shorter shells with more wadding.  There was a belief the additional wadding improved patterns.

Personnally I think a 3" 20ga with lead shot was not a good idea.  Every 3" Twenty I have shot kicked harder than any other gun.  Light guns and heavy payloads is not a good idea, anybody care to shoot a Thompson Center 6.5 pound 10ga magnum?

Bore size matters, anything a 3" Twenty can do a Sixteen can do better except maybe hold more steel pellets.



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The reason I asked about the Model 37 Win is because my wife has one in 20ga. I don't think we've shot it in 12 or 15 years.
As far as a 410 goes, my wife killed many crows with her Mossberg pump. She now has a SxS 410 she wants to try on them.

Shayne

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nhcrowshooter wrote:




 

Bob wrote:

In Europe there are still some diehard 16 gauge fans, the 16 is a very nice gauge. But the 12 bore is king both in Europe and the USA.

Bob A.




The 16 gauge fell out of favor in this country when no specific class for it was created in the game of skeet shooting. 

The 10 gauge fell out of favor when it was banned from live pigoen and trap shooting.

The 12 gauge is only King when there is no 10 gauge in the blind or on the line to compete with it biggrin


 

 





The 16 gauge has been slowly sliding into obscurity both in Canada and more so in the US. Biggest problem that has plagued the 16 is the lack of qualiy ammo and IMO... to purchase good ammo here will set one back more than the price of premium 12 gauge trap loads. So therefore it's a no-brainer to shoot a 12.

I have shot absolutely thousands of crows with my 2 M12 16's and have nothing bad to say about the gauge itself...other than the poor ammo selection.

If Winchester had not phased out their compression formed case and/or if Remington would market an STS type 16 gauge case  I would then dust off my Mec and be back in business. 1 ounce loads of 8 shot at 1200 fps or 1 1/8th ounce loadings of 7 1/2 shot at 1265 for those windy days were the ticket.

Actually it's cloudy, windy and cold here this morning. The last of the crows are now gathered and ready to move south. I think I will pack my 16, a couple boxes of ammo and take a drive. Will post my results!smile

Ted       

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JD 1983,

I stand corrected, I would have bet the farm that you could no longer get ammo for the 32 gauge. I wonder how long it has been available, I have to say that I am surprised to say the least! I see on the web site that you can either buy the empty hulls and reload them or buy brand new ammo for them. Frankly I don't understand how it's profitable enough to keep this ammo (32 & 24 gauge) in production.

Bob A.

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I would think that there are a few handloaders out there using them old guns out of sheer oddity just because they can you know, which I think is great. If I had one I would shurly want some thing to feed it. Bpi even carries all brass hulls for black powder shotgunners.
They have some of the hard to find stuff for the scatter guns.
But for some one with a 16 or28 ga gun that is having a hard time finding shells loaded I my self would spend a few bucks getting set up to reload and buy 5-6 hundred hulls and have the piece of mind that ammo is available for an old favorite cause you can make it your self. It doesn't take long to run out 100 rds on a single stage press.
But to each is own

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My father used to shoot the 3 inch 20's 1 1/4 ounce loads at ducks. Whats the point? There is no point! A 1 1/4 ounce load patterns much better out of a 12 bore than it does out of a 20 bore size. Bottom line is that he liked it as did many other shooters, so it boils down to whatever a guy likes.

As far as pass shooting goes (ducks & geese) the 10 gauge is king. But for anything other than this very specialized type of shooting it is not the king. For any type of volume shooting the 10 bore is more of a handicap than a help because it's to unwieldy.

Bob A.

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Bob wrote:


As far as pass shooting goes (ducks & geese) the 10 gauge is king. But for anything other than this very specialized type of shooting it is not the king. For any type of volume shooting the 10 bore is more of a handicap than a help because it's to unwieldy.

Bob A.



Sorry to disagree Bob but that is spoken like a man who has not handled, and shot a classic american double chambered for the 2 7/8" 10ga.

Crows are seldom shot on the flush with the gunner walking through the cover in pursuit.  They are far more like waterfowl responding to call  and decoy, coming to the shooter who more times than not has plenty of time to get ready.  A well balanced 10ga is not unwieldly in such a situation.

Big bore shotguns were banned due to their effectiveness in both target shooting and by wildlife agencies.  They were not banned because they were unwieldly. Read about Fred Kimble who shot a 6 gauge in competition until it was banned because his competitors complained.  Fred weighed 140lbs and his 6 gauge was a muzzle-loader.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/Kimble.htm

The 10ga is not king in terms of popularity.  It is not king on cost or availability of shells and reloading components. It is king based on what matters most, performance. 

Do you need a 10ga to shoot crows, no.   Is  the zone of effective fire larger when using a 10ga, sure is. Is it a blast to shoot crows with a 10ga, sure is. smile 

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Had to chime in on the 10 ga.
I've shot many a goose with the 10, thats why I bought it. I got a couple last week and going to get out there in a few days. I shot crows with it, but only on a goose hunt.   Time to sell it.  WHY, Cause It's Like Putting A Cinder Block On Your Shoulder.    I'ts a beast.  I can't wait to get a 3 1/2 12 ga.
Mike

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NH,

Ah yes, Fred Kimble & old "Bowhamp" at least I think his gun was spelled that way.

Mr. Kimble sure shot his share of waterfowl in his day with the 10 gauge but even with that being said it can not come close to the volume you get on crows. If he shot 75 to 100 ducks during a days hunt that was a damn good hunt in the late 1800's to early 1900's in the USA. A very mediocre crow hunt is 75 to 100 crows in a day!

I know you are a knowledgeable guy about shotguns but you have no experience with volume crow shooting. To suggest that a 10 pound 10 gauge is to you're advantage on high volume shoots (300 birds or more, one shooter) is utterly asinine. I'm quite sure it wouldn't take very long for you to put you're 10 gauge aside and grab a decen't 12 bore on a high volume shoot. The reason is because the bulk of your shooting is between 20 to 40 yards. You loose far more than you gain with the behemoth 10 gauge on high volume shoots in my opinion.

Bob A.

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Heck I can not take the pounding of a 12 gauge on a mini-high volume shoot around 500 rounds. 

I could not even use my go to12 gauge waterfowl gun for big crow shots.  The extrema 2 with kick off still kicks to hard for high volume shooting.

Nothing worse the wincing every time you pull the trigger.  Heck it gets really bad when you hold it off your shoulder then get wallop with the recoil.

I am now using a Urika 391 sporting model and a Cordoba with a graycoil recoil system.

Bob is right the 10 gage would beat you into submission.

John

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John,

A 10 pound 10 gauge shooting the 1 1/4 ounce load would be close to shooting a 7 1/2 pound 12 gauge with trap loads as far a srecoil is concerned, but that is as far as it goes. You would be worn out hefting that behemoth around on a volume shoot. Think about it this way, you have to break the breach open and close it every two shots! Say you get 300 shots off which is quite common on a decen't crow hunt, thats 150 times you are breaking the gun open & shut during a shoot, that alone would force you to submit to fatigue.

If all the shooting was at 60 yards and beyond where you might get 50 to 75 shots at birds all day I would be right there with NH with a 10 gauge. But this is not the case in crow hunting as you well know. This is why I gave up hunting waterfowl, it's just not worth it to me to go out for just a few web feet. A friend of mine from New York used to shoot a Russian over & under (12 gauge) where the muzzle size was that of a 10 gauge and NH is quite right, it did pattern very well with the larger bore size.

I think NH is satisfied to shoot anywhere from 10 to 30 crows in a day with the 10 bore and that is just fine. But for crows on volume shoots you want firepower with as little recoil as possible for the maximum effect! A breach loaded firearm just dosen't make the grade if you are a "true crow butcher"

Bob A.

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Bob,
My 10 is a Browning BPS. It's closer to 11 lbs. Then throw in 1 3/4 oz. pills and now your pushing 12 lbs. 30 inch barrel. Slow swinging, like oak branch. I don't think I ever shot more than 30 shells in a day and your shoulder knows it. Pumping that beast for big crow shoot would not be happening.

Mike

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Hey Bob, caught your reference to "Bo-Whoop". The gun actually belonged to Nash Buckingham and was an A H Fox 12 gauge 3 inch magnum bored extra full and extra full. He was a lover of the long shots at mallards and was a remarkable shot with the gun. His favorite load was 1 5/8th ounce of copper plated 5 shot of Winchester Super X Brand.

Apparently Nash left it on the roof of his car as he was distracted by friendly banter with some other hunter. The gun was lost when he forgot it on the roof and drove away. Lots of legends about what happened to the famous shotgun and rumors surface about it re-appearing from time to time.

Kind of cool info and I love his writingssmile.gif)

Ted

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Thanks Ted,

I'm not up to speed as far as history goes with the waterfowl greats of the sport. In years past (40 years ago or more) I read articles about Nash Buckingham and old "Bo Whoop" and thats why I remembered old Bo - Whoop, I just got old Bo-Whoop mixed up with the wrong gent. The 1 5/8th ounce load in the 3 inch 12 gauge was the best 3 inch load in my opinion. The 1 7/8th ounce was not as good in my opinion, now it might have been great out of a 10 bore. Man those old short magnums 1 1/2 ounce loads were a bear to shoot through my over & under when I hunted ducks. I stayed with the 1 1/4 ounce loads after that!

So Nash was the 12 gauge man and Fred was the 10 gauge man, and to think I had to come to a crow hunting bulletin board to learn this lol.

Bob A.

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Minnesota John, I am shooting a standard 10ga load with 1 1/4ounce lead shot. Recoil in not a factor, it's very tame.

Mike27, I also have a BPS 10ga, bought it new in 1989 when steel shot was mandated in NH. It weighs 9.5 pounds and with high speed 1 5/8 ounce steel shot it kills on both ends. 15 to 20 shots is plenty and leaves me sore.. AGAIN I AM SHOOTING A STANDARD 10GA 2 7/8" SHELL IN A PARKER DOUBLE BARREL......NOT A MAGNUM 3.5" 10GA. REPEATER. I can shoot this gun all day long and never be bothered by the effects of recoil. You comparing an apple to an orange.

Bob I would love to try using the old double on a volume crow shoot you describe, I believe I am up to the task. However I don't live in a place where I would ever experience that. If I did I might switch to a 20ga but I am not sure I would abandon a double gun, I really like them. Fact is more crow hunters live in places where they see a lower volume rather than a high volumes you have experienced.

Ted and Bob. Nash Buckinghams Bo Whoop was found and sold at auction this past spring.



http://www.ducks.org/news/2118/LostandfoundBuckingh.html

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Tuesday 21st of September 2010 01:12:02 AM

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"A very mediocre crow hunt is 75 to 100 crows in a day! "

Ill take that mediocre any day Bob haha!!



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Hi Nasty,

Nation wide 75 to 100 crows is a good day, but not out here in the central part of the USA.

Bob A.

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NH,

I enjoyed reading the thread on old Bo-Whoop,

If crow busters is around long enough there might come a day when guys from another generation will be reading about you with Bo-Whoop Jr. in 10 gauge.

My 20 gauge 870 with custom wood is named Big Birtha, my 12 gauge 870 with custom wood is called Big Brutis. My two Beretta model 391's are Spootnick #1 and Spootnick # 2.

Bob A.

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Hi NH and Bob A.,

I like to call my Browning Gold 10 ga. "The Hammer"...  It is an older all steel model and all of that weight really eats up any harsh recoil.  Right now it is setup with an EoTech and LaserMax for nighttime patrols vs. raccoons, opossums, armadillo's and skunks with its short factory barrel through an SRM "Terror Tube" choke.  It was also shipped with a 28 barrel that is used on geese and occassionally crows with an AnglePort IC choke.

Regards,

Gadget Bob

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Gadget Bob wrote:

Hi NH and Bob A.,

I understand the 16 also lost popularity after the 3 inch 20 gauge shell came online.  I have heard people used to say "a 16 hits like a 12 and carries like a 20".

Regards,

Gadget Bob



Hi GB,
 
       I remember hearing that particular quote as a youngster. The 16 was extremely popular down here in duck hunting circles. I would venture to guess that the federal steel shot mandate was probably the death knell.


Regards,    Jim

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Hi Jim,

That makes a lot of sense... 

Regards,

Gadget Bob

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biggrin I do take my single shot 16ga or pump , Rem , every know and than for crows. I started hunting with a  H&R 30" full choke on squrriels when i was 14 wink So i do keep a 16ga around if i shoot it are not and yes a die hard i guess. But best load is a reload because u can reload it with hard shoot which makes tighter patterns awwbiggrin

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Bob wrote:

Hi Nasty,

Nation wide 75 to 100 crows is a good day, but not out here in the central part of the USA.

Bob A.



Bob it would be a record day for me in NH.  The best shoot I was ever involved with lasted about 4 hours and started with 4 shooters.  A couple of guys had to leave early for work leaving me and my regular partner together for the last hour and half. When we picked up we put down 64 crows total.  That happened in 2000.

 



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Jiminar wrote:

Gadget Bob wrote:

Hi NH and Bob A.,

I understand the 16 also lost popularity after the 3 inch 20 gauge shell came online.  I have heard people used to say "a 16 hits like a 12 and carries like a 20".

Regards,

Gadget Bob



Hi GB,
 
       I remember hearing that particular quote as a youngster. The 16 was extremely popular down here in duck hunting circles. I would venture to guess that the federal steel shot mandate was probably the death knell.


Regards,    Jim

...and the only thing keeping the 28 gauge alive is skeet.

Ted

 



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Hello NH,

I read you're post about you're best shoot in 2000. On field types of shoots where the shooting is much more drawn out you could use you're side by side because you mainly get singles and doubles coming into the setup over a period of anywhere from 2 to 7 hours depending if you are in the right spot. Shoots like that can produce anywhere from 100 to 450 crows or more, but it's drawn out so it's much more relaxed.

Now on the other hand during a good flyway shoot you might shoot the same amount of crows as a field setup, but it's done anywhere from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours. In most cases it's 2 1/2 hours in duration so a double gun can't keep up, you loose to many opportunities with a side by side. It wouldn't matter what the gauge! No way can a man with a side by side or over & under keep up with another man shooting a pump or auto in this type of situation.

Sincerely,

Bob A.

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The torture continues. Hunted a cut corn field which at this time of year which has always produced a good shoot. 2+ hours hunting until the sun set we saw a total of 3 crows flying together late into the hunt.

They went over us high heading away, nary a look. I took one down with one shot from the Mighty Ten and killed one, a 50 yard plus going away shot.

I am really scratching my head wondering where are the crows? The season is supposed to be getting better with each passing day as it always has but this year it's different?

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Hello NH,

Every year is differen't, sometimes they are a little late, sometimes they move to a differen't area, this is the reason you scout. A lot of people don't realize the amount of scouting that is neccessary throughout the season inorder to keep getting good shooting. You might see them feeding like gang busters in an area one week and the following week they might be several miles or more from that location.

Bob A.

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Bob we are running into the same situation at each of our usual hunts in two states. Scouting ain't the problem, lack of crows is.

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Bob wrote:

Hello NH,

Every year is differen't, sometimes they are a little late, sometimes they move to a differen't area, this is the reason you scout. A lot of people don't realize the amount of scouting that is neccessary throughout the season inorder to keep getting good shooting. You might see them feeding like gang busters in an area one week and the following week they might be several miles or more from that location.

Bob A.



Yes Sir! It's like that here in Manitoba this time of the year. Might find thousands of crows feeding at a location one day and the next day the whole gang is down in the U.S. somewhere.

Ted

 



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NH,

If you have scouted a lot and have not seen many birds then they are either late (more than likely) or they just are not using these areas anymore, I've seen this happen all to often over the past 36 years.

Bob A.

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Local Wildlife Workers claim the West Nile Virus has something to do with lack of crows in Massachusetts. There are still roosts in the area but mostly urban areas which are almost impossible to hunt. NH I am not sure if you have that in your area.

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MB, I had not heard of West Nile breakout in MA. We had that happen here in 2003 and things didn't get good again until last year. Now it would appear something has happened again, all our haunts are unusually devoid of crows. The difference is so great it is literally day vs. night.

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Bob, it appears to be another outbreak of the dam WNV. I did a little research and it appears there is a significant breakout of the West Nile Virus just south of me in MA. It is obviously here in NH as we have the first reported case in a human since 2003. The first time this disease swept through the area, 2003, our crows were wiped out and the hunting extremely poor. They had rebounded well with last year being the best year since that outbreak. As I have previously reported we are seeing an incredible decline of crows to shoot in my area. This appears to be why.  From a crow hunters perspective, THIS SUCKS!

http://www.wmur.com/health/25053676/detail.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/200841.php



-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Thursday 23rd of September 2010 12:17:23 PM

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NH,

I remember the last outbreak a number of years ago. It was mainly on the east coast. I never noticed any difference in the crow numbers out here during that time period. You would get migrants from Quebec whereas we get migrants from Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

I would think things will improve for you because the migrants (not the local crows) might not be effected at all!

Bob A.

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I'll tell you right now you do not want to see WNV in your area if you are a crow hunter. It will change things for the worse like you can't believe. I am hoping we get a wave of migrants as we usually do, however in my experience that wave moves through the area in a few days time.

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West Nile in Mass.??????????  clueless.gif



Thanks a lot NH!! I was depressed but didnt know why,After your post now I know why and I feel worse!!no  tears.gif

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SD, are things pretty bad in your neck of the woods too? It is amazing how few crows we are seeing right now here in seacoast NH.

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NH,

The crows that migrate through you're area of NH are in New York State. It isn't that far from NH to Plattsburgh, New York. I don't know if they stay in the Plattsburgh area throughout the winter or not but they are there from late August through late October. I used to hunt them up there back in the mid 1960's.

Bob A.

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