Crow Busters Forum

ublycrow · Veteran Member

Kill the scout?

8fishermen · Guru

My partner always says of the first scout, "Now we are gonna kill him, but you don't have to, but we are going to anyway."

And we usually do kill the first one.

SHANEDOG · Guru

As Bob A. said when asked this question,"any crow that comes in range gets shot"

Saul · Veteran Member

I am like Bob , i shoot every bird i can.

Polish Hammer · Senior Member

Agree...if they are in range....let em have it.

Hammer

Skip · Guru

Agreed: Kill the scout. Do not shoot at the scout unless you kill him. You do not want to educate the scout!!

skip

Big Honkers · Guru

I agree with those above. Shoot any crow that comes into range.

I think the "scout" crow is just a crow hunters tall tale.

Mike27 · Senior Member

End it's career on the spot.

The dead don't speak.

Pat B · Senior Member

I'm with the others. If it's a gimme shot..take it. If its risky and odds are even for a miss. Leave em.

M12Shooter · Guru

Are those actually "scouts" or just the first bird to reach all the commotion? I shoot every bird that comes within decent range!

FF

ublycrow · Veteran Member

I love the answers.

I will choose end its career!

Lone Star Phil · Senior Member

Ubly:

The groundswell of advice is sound; shoot the first bird that gets in range. I agree 100%. The "bird in the hand" decision is undisputable.

In the event there is a wingman or two following in trail, I sometimes enjoy challenging Gadget Bob or Texas Matt and I don't always follow the "shoot the early bird" maxim and have let the first one pass right over me to gain the "lead" attention of other patrolmen and shoot the next bird(s) as soon as my mount has a shooting solution.

That practice is not productive when your partner, unbeknowst to you, has displaced from this battery position to retrieve a rifle from Toyota One though.

Yeah, shoot the first one.

jd1983 · Senior Member

Scout - crowhunter urban legend ??
I've passed on the first to get a shot at the 2-6 followers that I can see are bout 60 yards behind the first. But I have let a single iffy shot at one pass and let him look the spread over some times he rallies more in other times it may just go sit out of range and call every crow to that tree for story time. Just depends how phded they are. If you can hit em take em.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

I agree, shoot any bird that comes within good killing range. Do not put extra pressure on yourself and overthink the shot. It's just a crow not a Marine Recon patrol. If you miss him you miss him. thats hunting. Generally there will be more of them.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:54:00 AM

Bob · Guru

If you are a R&G guy like Skip you are limited as to the amount of crows you can get at. If the first bird that comes in (scout or no scout) you take the shot and blow it then your odds are less if that crow gives the warning call to the others. The reason is because you are dealing with small family groups at most stands. Each family group consists of usually two parents and anywhere from 1 to 3 offspring.

If you don't do well at one stand there is always the next! It's like playing pool, everytime the rack gets broken it's a differen't game each time!

I've seen this happen many times on good crow hunts where I live, you get one real smart crow trying to warn the others, but there are just to many of them! They still come into the setup because that one lone crow can't cover enough territory to warn em all! Sometimes he might come a tad to close (the smart bird) and he becomes another digit on my counter!

Bob A.

Mainehunt · Guru

Bob wrote:

If you are a R&G guy like Skip you are limited as to the amount of crows you can get at. If the first bird that comes in (scout or no scout) you take the shot and blow it then your odds are less if that crow gives the warning call to the others. The reason is because you are dealing with small family groups at most stands. Each family group consists of usually two parents and anywhere from 1 to 3 offspring.

If you don't do well at one stand there is always the next! It's like playing pool, everytime the rack gets broken it's a differen't game each time!

I've seen this happen many times on good crow hunts where I live, you get one real smart crow trying to warn the others, but there are just to many of them! They still come into the setup because that one lone crow can't cover enough territory to warn em all! Sometimes he might come a tad to close (the smart bird) and he becomes another digit on my counter!

Bob A.

I like the "playing pool" analogy, that makes a lot of sense.

Kev

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Mike27 · Senior Member

I'll let the single go only if someone to my side will get the shot or the followers are a second or two from shooting range, no more. If the first bird doesn't like what he sees, all the rest will turn and you get bupkis.

Mdflyfish · Veteran Member

I agree with Mike27. In range-- pull the trigger... Unless you got a few comin in right behind.

chip · Guru

A dead crow tells no tales,,, To quote Bob A exactly from the archives that are lost forever.......... And I will say once more, It wont be an iffy shot if you got that Jellyhead screwed in and can shoot biggrin

I know who you are!!! You're the same dumb Pilgrim I been hearin for 20 days and smellin for three!!!

watch em fall · Senior Member

Can someone explain to me why the heck you would not shoot it, if you are out there to kill crows then you have to shoot at crows. What would make the scout immune to a load of 7.5s or 8s or 6s? I hear this question and think WTF???

-- Edited by watch em fall on Friday 7th of January 2011 10:26:21 PM

jd1983 · Senior Member

Picture birds 1,2,3,4 coming in strait and low. Lay up shots. Grinning right
No bird 1 is 30-40 yards ahead of the others. Let him fly by and circle and by the time he does birds 2-4 are in range now you have more birds than you have shells in the gun if you hunt in PA that is. Reload fast and hope you don't drop the ammo. ;)

watch em fall · Senior Member

Too many times I've tried that and got busted. I haven't had much luck with letting birds pass,usually get none. I guess I just don't have the fortitude to let crows pass!

shotgunshooter12 · Veteran Member

hey guys . new to this site and new to the crow hunting game.been an avid wingshooter since i was born.some people take off from work on Elvis" b-day-i take off Sept.1.something about those little "gray-bullets" but i recently loaded up on crow stuff-blind,calls,dec.s,ext. and went on my first hunt this morning.set up a feeding-spread and had two on the ground in about 30min. then somebody turned off the switch.no other crows came in with those 2,so i know they didnt see me. so know im asking the same question. . .sould i have let those first 2 go so they could go get the re-enforcments and bring them back?ive read a few places "never kill the scout"also 2-guessing if i called too much.used combo of hand/elec. calls.do most of u turn on the e-caller and just let her rip or do uu start w hand calling.and if so, do u call even when u hear NO crows in the distance or do u wait until u hear birds and THEN call back to them.and im also wondering how most of u decide to go w either a FEEDING or a FIGHTING setup?i will gladly accept any help i can get,to get this thing up and running and turn that 2 into 20+

Bob · Guru

Hello Shannon,

If I understand you correctly you said you shot two crows and after that nothing came in, is this correct?

If so, it's more a matter of you not being in an area where the birds want to be or they are very fragmented and not having very many in any one area. The more you get into the field the better you will get to know you're hunting area and the crows habits.

The last thing you want to do is keep going back to the same area and getting no results. You have to scout around, pick up a good pair of field glasses or binocks to do you're scouting. Pick the high ground so you can see further!

Bob A.

Mike27 · Senior Member

sgs12,
Shooting the 2 was correct. Most of time they would not have returned.
Play the caller for a short time, 20 or so seconds and listen for birds. Keep your eyes peeled because you might get a couple sneaking in silent.

wingmaster · Senior Member

I say shot frist ask question later i all way say.

8fishermen · Guru

I smooth missed the "scout" yesterday morning 3 times. Then in the next hour and 15 min killed 18 before heading to my son BB game.

This morning I was watching 4 crows sitting in a tree watching my spread about 430 yards out. I switched to a JS fighting crows and the "scout" made a bee line to me. He went down in a puff of black feathers. At the sound of the shot, the other 3 followed him in and those three meet the same fate. Two were just a little out front and died mid air. The last bird came in while I was shooting his buddies and lit in the tree I was sitting under. Lets just say that did not go well for him. All this was after all 4 birds had made a high pass on my deks and decided not to come in. I watched them for a while then turned the caller off for a couple of min. When I switched it back on, The first one could not resist just one more pass.

I have had tatle-tales sitting in a tree just a fussing at us and even fly out to scold another crow that just could not resist the siren's call of death. Even with that crow flying out to scream "ABORT MISSION!!!!!" in the ear of the other crow that was locked in on us, it does not deter a crow that has made up his mind to come into the decoys.

I think they are either coming or they are not, scout or no scout, but for the life of me I can't predict which it will be.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Just goes to show more crows than not are curious and like a moth to a flame they must inspect and join the calling and decoy trap. Shoot every bird that gives you the opportunity to kill it and don't worry about your misses, simply strive to improve your shooting.

8fishermen · Guru

I was wrong. I said in an hour and fifteen min. I started hunting at 6:47 because it was very cloudy. I remember because I looked at the time when I turned the MP3 on my Blackberry on. I looked at my call log and I was on the phone walking out of the field at 7:34 with 18 down. Part of this time was used to pick up. So in 47 min I killed 18 and missed several more after missing the "scout" 3 times. This field is 3 min. from my house and I shoot it once a week because it is so close and is easy to make a quick hunt. These birds are educated but I change the setup each time and get a few more. The change this time was a new speaker unit that is much clear and louder that any I have ever used. This was actually the best hunt I have had from this field and was the shortest time I have hunted it.

I'll let y'all draw your own conclusions, but as for me, I'm shooting all of them.

M12Shooter · Guru

I simply shoot each crow as they come in to calling. All this talk about "point man" scout's has always left me a bit skeptical. Are crows that smart? Will a larger group of crows send in a recon mission to report back to the intelligence sector? I would doubt it.

Have you ever been spotted by the scout? Or was the first bird in that caught your movement simply lucky that you had to scratch your nose or something at that precise moment. I've had this happen to me a bazillion times where this so called "scout" bird simply drifts off silently and when a safe distance away spills all the beans as to whats going on.

Good calling IMO will have crows move over in a timely fashion where the closest birds will likey arrive first followed by a second or more. I have witnessed many times a couple crows coming in to fighting calls where the lead will bird hold up a bit to allow his wingman to catch up so that they can both enter into the fracus together. More of an act of cowardness IMO on the crows part as do we not all feel tougher or more confident as part of a group?

They do however employ the old fighter pilot technique where one bird will come in low and his wingman will approach high as to be the "eyes and ears" of the situation. How many times have you fellas been watching the high flyer only to have his low level buddy appear seemingly out of nowhere in your face...or vise versa?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ted

-- Edited by M12Shooter on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:34:36 PM

-- Edited by M12Shooter on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:36:05 PM

Bob · Guru

Hi Ted,

I got a kick out of you're post!

Hey, here is something else to think about, how many times have you been looking dead ahead for crows coming in, then look awaw for a fraction of a second and wham, there's a crow in you're face! Where did that bird come from? Some pretty amazing stuff happens out in the wild!

Bob A.

8fishermen · Guru

M12Shooter wrote:

I simply shoot each crow as they come in to calling. All this talk about "point man" scout's has always left me a bit skeptical. Are crows that smart? Will a larger group of crows send in a recon mission to report back to the intelligence sector? I would doubt it.

Have you ever been spotted by the scout? Or was the first bird in that caught your movement simply lucky that you had to scratch your nose or something at that precise moment. I've had this happen to me a bazillion times where this so called "scout" bird simply drifts off silently and when a safe distance away spills all the beans as to whats going on.

Good calling IMO will have crows move over in a timely fashion where the closest birds will likey arrive first followed by a second or more. I have witnessed many times a couple crows coming in to fighting calls where the lead will bird hold up a bit to allow his wingman to catch up so that they can both enter into the fracus together. More of an act of cowardness IMO on the crows part as do we not all feel tougher or more confident as part of a group?

They do however employ the old fighter pilot technique where one bird will come in low and his wingman will approach high as to be the "eyes and ears" of the situation. How many times have you fellas been watching the high flyer only to have his low level buddy appear seemingly out of nowhere in your face...or vise versa?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ted

-- Edited by M12Shooter on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:34:36 PM

-- Edited by M12Shooter on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:36:05 PM

I think I am with ya on this one. I like the title "tattle tale" better. What I believe happens (I qualify this with my limited experience) is you get busted by one or more crows and they in turn go sit on a limb out of range and observe and sound warning cries.

As far as their intelligence is concerned, somewhere I read or watched a piece on crows that said that scientist have documented over 250 different vocal sounds that crows use to communicate with each other, BUT, I am still not sold on the "scout" theory.

I just thought of something else. If they send out scouts, wouldn't each new group that enters the calling area send it's own scout?

-- Edited by 8fishermen on Monday 10th of January 2011 09:32:49 PM

ublycrow · Veteran Member

Thanks for the information. I learn more and more every day... as a new member. Maybe the scout was a tell tale I grew up with. In alot of cases I have always had a loan bird come in ....and heard the frenzy in the distance.....

I'm amazed at the messages of multiple birds being killed in a matter of an hour. I seem to run into 4 to 5 kills and the woods goes dead with birds 500 yards away saying enough is enough.

Maybe they are seeing me. But I'm tucked in with full camo and only movement to pull and shoot.

And then there was the day I hunted with that red fox. That was different.

Brian

Big Honkers · Guru

Dont worry ubly, its not you...its your location and the lack of birds in it. trust me on this one my michigan brother.

shotgunshooter12 · Veteran Member

greg- u said u missed that scout the other day 3x. ive heard a RUMOR that the ammo manufactures like to stick a few shell w -no shot in em- in a box from time 2 time.thats what i chaulk all my misses up too.cauz it cant be shooters error???

8fishermen · Guru

shotgunshooter12 wrote:

greg- u said u missed that scout the other day 3x. ive heard a RUMOR that the ammo manufactures like to stick a few shell w -no shot in em- in a box from time 2 time.thats what i chaulk all my misses up too.cauz it cant be shooters error???

Hey! That's got to be it! It couldn't have anything to do with me being excited and that first one about 75 yard high when he came in. That couldn't be it. It has to be what you said. biggrin

ublycrow · Veteran Member

I here you Big Honkers...

Michigan has birds but I've never been swormed with a 100 crows. If I pull a pack of 20 I'm on fire.

I plan to knock one down this weekend and post my first pic.

Big Honkers · Guru

Careful, the MI season does not start til Feb 1st.

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

Hey BH

How was your waterfowl season? We had some awful good duck hunts in October and then it dried up for about 3 weeks. Was a pretty big push of birds around mid November and again at first of December. Overall an above average season. I was hoping for something to happen Jan1-2 with the weather change but all we could find were geese.

Big Honkers · Guru

Hi BBB,

Waterfowl season was average for us. Last year was way better. Did ok on the early goose season, even managed 7 of those oil bands from birds that were transplanted from the big oil spill in Calhoun Co. Low water hurt us during duck season. Our fields did not produce like normal either. Managed 19 mallards on Jan 1 out of a corn field. That was our best duck shoot for the year.

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

It sure was dry this fall. Had to change spots often to stay in the birds. I was really disappointed with Jan1-2 season but guess I just had too high of expectations. Fortunately I had finished out the last two days of regular season with black ducks on both days so that was nice. My friends are still chasing the geese on a steady basis but I'm pretty bored with that.

davejohnson2 · Veteran Member

after today, i dont think there is a "scout" rather, he is just the first bird leading the pack to get there, or, it is just a single.

M12Shooter · Guru

davejohnson2 wrote:

after today, i dont think there is a "scout" rather, he is just the first bird leading the pack to get there, or, it is just a single.

The only time I can call the first in bird a "true scout" would be during the breeding season. Crows have established breeding territories at this time and defend them agressively against others of their species. Sneak into a small woodlot and speak a bit of crow language with a mouth call. Almost instantly you will be met with a crow just checking out who is in their territory and what they are doing there. smile

Ted

motiondecoy · Guru

My experience is if you can shoot every one that drops by then there'll be a steady supply of crows until you run out of crows, or ammunition...I try to deck the first one in even leading a flock as you can always get a few more before they realize the lead crow isn't sunbathing!

Old Artilleryman · Guru

Great ideas and experience stories!

In a couple of hours (it's now 0308), I'm about to leave the house to try "all of the above" in a favorite nearby spot. If lucky, I'll post a few downed bandit photos of the ones that landed outside of the soybeans.

Butch · Guru

I'm a shoot em all hunter, but on occasion have let the first one pass and with my limited experience I was just using my instinct's and have had mixed results. Good luck on your season hope you do well.

Butch

10gacrowshooter · Senior Member

shoot them as they come. too much bad can happen when you let one in. I learned this 30 years ago. (yes with 6's. Bob gives a big thumbs up for 6"s)

-- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Sunday 17th of August 2014 07:07:31 PM

-- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Sunday 17th of August 2014 07:09:32 PM

-- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Sunday 17th of August 2014 07:10:15 PM

-- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Sunday 17th of August 2014 07:10:41 PM

Mark · Guru

Kill 'em all... don't let any pass.. ( with #6's).... : )