So, my crow shooting skills are not what I would like them to be. I have almost no history with shotgun skills. I have a long history of adequate skills with things that have sights, expert medals from the military etc. But I just can't get comfortable with the rail and front bead. I'm ok when throwing clay pidgeons, but things happen a lot faster in the field. I'm shooting too high too often, just looking down the barrel and kind of putting the bead in right place, sort of. I'd much prefer looking through a peep sight or something, maybe I just need to get used to it.
"Been there and done that!" And I was about your age, too. Did something about it and now I am a Master Class sporting clays shooter. Just came back from the SE Regional Championship with a couple of trophies in my age group and lots of good memories of great targets. But enough bragging.
Would suggest that you find an active sporting clays club and take a lesson with a good instructor. Sporting clays vs. skeet or trap because it is a lot closer to hunting. Try this link for clubs near you: www.claytargetsonline.com
From your post, I'd guess that you are shooting with one eye shut and this is no good. Looking at the bead/barrel is not the way to shoot game or clays...you must look only at the bird and let your subconscious brain put the barrel in the right place (it will!). There are some other basics that are important such as eye dominance, timing, stance, focus, etc. Your instructor will explain all of this to you.
One last point. Work with your instructor to shoot "low gun" vs. "pre-mount." Usually referred to the Move, Mount, Shoot or Churchill method.
Understand that learning to diagnose shooting errors is extremely difficult to do alone and impossible to do through an Internet forum. An afternoon with a good instructor is an investment that will pay for itself with shells saved. In addition, you will greatly increase the number of extremely satisfying "thuds" of falling crows.
I hope this helps.
Demi
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The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
The only other thing I will add is learning to take your shots at the premium angle. I have hunted with some really good outdoorsman: deer hunters, turkey hunters, fisherman, blaze'n fast pistol shooters, etc and some of those fellers were pretty piss poor shooters at crows. I'd give them first shot and they were quite regularly shooting either too early or too late. Knowing the timing on how long it takes you to mount VS being ready to shoot the bird at the premium distance & angle takes practice. I'd say even knowing how a bird flaps before he makes a turn is quite important.
Those are all things that come with time.
I'd say Demi's points are paramount here: 2 eyed shooter, mount, follow thru, and shooting with instinct VS your brain.
Good luck and keep us posted on your successes and frustrations.
I used to take a partner with me with all their 12 gauge magnum loads and while great waterfowl shots they stunk at crow shooting; couldn't blow a crow call,shot way too soon and their oh so mighty full chokes were ultimately full jokes!
Very frustrating!
Well I figure clay pigeon practice don't cut it either unless crows fly a hundred miles per hour! I got practice by shooting roost bound blackbirds notably the starling ...my technique was to blast them as they flew away versus left to right which I also did and it was a huge help...now I expect argument with this but all told I taught myself wing shooting for crows so if you feel you got crows by clay pigeon or trap shooting - hey I cannot say it didn't work but my style did it for me. Now days I hate is when it's really windy it gets really tricky and I never get enough practice there. I forget to just shoot at them with no lead if they are flying into the wind. Flying away then lead and here it becomes like clay pigeon shooting at this point. I expect I will get some argument on this too in all its' forms. But hey-what I use works for me. I am also sure the heavier loads might be an advantage here too in high wind....!
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"Been there and done that!" And I was about your age, too. Did something about it and now I am a Master Class sporting clays shooter. Just came back from the SE Regional Championship with a couple of trophies in my age group and lots of good memories of great targets. But enough bragging.
Would suggest that you find an active sporting clays club and take a lesson with a good instructor. Sporting clays vs. skeet or trap because it is a lot closer to hunting. Try this link for clubs near you: www.claytargetsonline.com
From your post, I'd guess that you are shooting with one eye shut and this is no good. Looking at the bead/barrel is not the way to shoot game or clays...you must look only at the bird and let your subconscious brain put the barrel in the right place (it will!). There are some other basics that are important such as eye dominance, timing, stance, focus, etc. Your instructor will explain all of this to you.
One last point. Work with your instructor to shoot "low gun" vs. "pre-mount." Usually referred to the Move, Mount, Shoot or Churchill method.
Understand that learning to diagnose shooting errors is extremely difficult to do alone and impossible to do through an Internet forum. An afternoon with a good instructor is an investment that will pay for itself with shells saved. In addition, you will greatly increase the number of extremely satisfying "thuds" of falling crows.
I hope this helps.
Demi
It sounds like we have had very similar experiences. If I follow the path you have already walked it should save me a bunch of time learning by making mistakes. There is a shooting range just up the road that has sporting clays. I've sent them a message via facebook. I'm sure a proper instructor will make all the difference. After reading about fitting a shotgun I was going to get to work modifying my gun, but I think I will wait on that until I have some time with the gun and the instructor at the range at the same time.
What are your thoughts on shotgun sights? I even have a couple holo-sights laying around I was starting to think about. I have an eotech that's been sitting on the shelf for years.
IMO, sights on shotguns only hurt as they attract your eyes back to the barrel. When your eyes stay focused out on the target, your gun swings smoothly. The instant your eyes come back to the closer barrel/sight/bead, the barrel stops momentarily and you miss behind! It's true...trust me on this one.
Because targets are predictable in skeet or trap, with practice you can get away with measuring leads (or shooting with one eye closed). In hunting or sporting clays, measuring/checking the barrel/closing one eye will be the kiss of death for that shot.
Beads or sights? I usually remove the beads from my shotguns as soon as I get them!
Here is a good video on the topic. Gil Ash is one of this nation's top instructor:
Demi
-- Edited by Island Shooter on Monday 3rd of October 2016 03:15:45 PM
__________________
The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
The quality of your setup will play a large part in your accuracy as well. I keep two shotguns in my blind with me. One has a modified choke and the other a full choke. Just depends on the birds. I shot MANY birds this weekend close. I mean real close. We shot in a pecan orchard from a small opening where two trees had fallen. The birds came in low through the trees many times. I love slow floaters. Many feathers in the air. I rarely shot my full choke yesterday. Some shoots are just the opposite.
As for shooting skills, I am different. I can't tell you how I do it but I shoot pretty well. I am left eye dominate but shoot right handed. I have to close my left eye to shoot. Somehow after 40+ years of shooting doves, ducks, and crows, I have gotten pretty good at wing shooting. I think practice is key. Taking some lessons could help a ton as well. I have had folks tell me that shooting a shotgun that fits you well is also important. I have always shot out of the box shotguns. Heck, I don't even have the same brand in my blind with me. This weekend, I had a Mossberg pump and a Remington pump. Love them both!
Take some lessons and then make sure you have a great blind to shoot out off. Shooting a lot of short distance shots will help your average a ton.
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If you are not stepping forward, you are stepping backwards. Time stands still no for No Man.
1) take pliers and unscrew the bead so that you stop looking at the darn thing. i'm somewhat serious but realize not everyone wants to pull the bead off. normally they screw right back in so you can save it if you want to replace later.
2) find an instructor that you can work with and that will save you dollars in wasted targets. depending on where you are located, that may require you to go on a bigger search. where i live we have a few sporting courses but only a couple are quality ones with potential instructors. however other parts of the country have more options. additionally if you find a course that throws registered targets particularly for larger events you will be better off in the long run.
3) if you don't find an instructor and have to go it alone, start on a skeet field with high seven and low one to get an initial basis from which to work. sporting will be a better long term option if you can find a quality course.
Along with the rest of the advice, keep your head tight on the stock. Your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun. It is very easy and common to lift one's head to get a better look at the target, it's called peaking. It can also be a reaction to avoid the effect of recoil. Once you lift your head you are sunk, you are going to shoot too high. The rib and the bead are tools and one of their jobs is to help you keep your head down. When you mount a shotgun that properly fits you the only thing you should see is the bead. If you see any rib you need to get your head down or change the fit of the stock.
Make the effort to keep your head down, put the bead just a little in front of the crow, keep your gun moving with the target (stopping your swing when you pull the trigger is another wingshooting downfall) and pull the trigger. You should start hitting some birds.
Along with the rest of the advice, keep your head tight on the stock. Your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun. It is very easy and common to lift one's head to get a better look at the target, it's called peaking. It can also be a reaction to avoid the effect of recoil. Once you lift your head you are sunk, you are going to shoot too high. The rib and the bead are tools and one of their jobs is to help you keep your head down. When you mount a shotgun that properly fits you the only thing you should see is the bead. If you see any rib you need to get your head down or change the fit of the stock.
Make the effort to keep your head down, put the bead just a little in front of the crow, keep your gun moving with the target (stopping your swing when you pull the trigger is another wingshooting downfall) and pull the trigger. You should start hitting some birds.
I've had some experience with my fairly light pump gun firing magnum slugs and buckshot, punched myself in the face a few times. It taught me to keep my head away from the stock. So at least I'm consistent, consistently doing everything wrong. I believe I have some work to do. At least I have no shortage of places I can start to improve.
You sought help and advise for a problem, most men won't do this. I can tell by your attitude you will make short work of this.
Look forward on hearing of the improvement .
It looks like my instructors name will be Isabelle. She is a certified instructor (not sure what that means) who shoots competition with a team of instructors. Hopefully we can get in some trigger time on Sunday. And I now believe shotgun shooting is point shooting instead of sighted fire,probably what everybody has been trying to hammer into my head. I'm used to transitioning from point shooting to sighted fire back and forth with a handgun at close ranges but it seems very counter intuitive to intentionally use point shooting with a long gun. I guess I'll just have to get used to it. Using point shooting at distances where sighted fire could be used seems , I don't know, reckless. And point shooting is a skill with a very short shelf life. Aimed fire still works with a lot less practice. No wonder people are always talking about practicing in the off season and such. Maybe I really will talk the bead off my shotgun, it caused me to miss the other day what with the thickness of the bead (front sight) at a longer range pushing the barrel down. Sunday.
I just realized that shooting shotgun is the same skill as shooting my stick bow which has no sights. I can't believe I missed that. It makes sense now. This will make a big difference.
-- Edited by stone-age on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 02:14:26 PM
It looks like my instructors name will be Isabelle. She is a certified instructor (not sure what that means) who shoots competition with a team of instructors. Hopefully we can get in some trigger time on Sunday. And I now believe shotgun shooting is point shooting instead of sighted fire,probably what everybody has been trying to hammer into my head. I'm used to transitioning from point shooting to sighted fire back and forth with a handgun at close ranges but it seems very counter intuitive to intentionally use point shooting with a long gun. I guess I'll just have to get used to it. Using point shooting at distances where sighted fire could be used seems , I don't know, reckless. And point shooting is a skill with a very short shelf life. Aimed fire still works with a lot less practice. No wonder people are always talking about practicing in the off season and such. Maybe I really will talk the bead off my shotgun, it caused me to miss the other day what with the thickness of the bead (front sight) at a longer range pushing the barrel down. Sunday.
I just realized that shooting shotgun is the same skill as shooting my stick bow which has no sights. I can't believe I missed that. It makes sense now. This will make a big difference.
-- Edited by stone-age on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 02:14:26 PM
It sounds like the light is coming on and you are "getting it" about shooting. Great news!
Checking the NSCA instructors in VA, there is an Isobel Ziluca listed. Is this the instructor? It should be a good start for you, and if you are like I was, you will be amazed at how many bad habits there are that need to be changed.
In America, most hunters/shooters started out getting tips from Dad or Gramps, and the advice was not always sound. In addition, the typical first gun was a .22 rifle so closing one eye was the norm. The more we hunted, the more ingrained our bad habits became. Unlike us, in many countries such as England, shooting is a national culture and doing it right from the start is a must.
Have fun and definitely keep us posted on what happens. Good shooting!
Demi
__________________
The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
Island Shooter--are you shooting the 2017 Fitasc Grand Prix up here?
Yes! Both my wife and I are signed up. FITASC is our favorite shooting discipline and Pat & Drew are the best! We almost waited too long and now we are on the waiting list for 20 ga. FITASC. We are shooting Wednesday and Thursday (all that was left ).
Will you be attending?
Demi
__________________
The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
That's great. I won't be attending but will most likely show up just to watch. Just happened to notice that you mentioned attending southeast regional which caused me to look and see when nationals were. Ran across something Drew had posted for 2017 FITASC. Fortunately their two courses are only an hour from my house so I get there weekly in the summer and winter but not as much now that we are into hunting season. Usually before a big event the course(s) is set to practice with some pretty long and technical stuff so I'll have to make a point to get there tomorrow. Pat/Drew are both great and always helpful when run into them. Only other course around that I consider worth the drive is Northbrook.
Well, well, well. My instructor said I have a good eye and that I hit some very difficult targets, rabbits and such. She said I am well on my way to being a very good shooter.
However, I missed a lot. A lot of times she told me I missed high, and I discovered I had raised my head off the stock again. Now I get why that is so important. A lot of times she said I was behind the target. Over and over when things were close and fast she told me I didn't lead it enough, but I did finally get it more or less. I had to lead far more than I would have expected. Other times I would correct for lead and fail to correct for the target starting to drop and miss high. It really was difficult for me to get the lead dialed in at modest distances. And after I started to get a feel for things the gun often didn't go where I wanted it to go.
I'm now much more comfortable with the sight picture and what works for me. But I have no idea what good it would do me to try to shoot clay pigeons if I didn't have an instructor there to tell me where I missed. That is very concerning. How in the world do I correct my mistakes on the range if I don't know where my shot went when I miss?
And the wind was gusting so bad our gun cart started rolling away once, but I just found that interesting.
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