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Post Info TOPIC: Electronic Decoys in PA??


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Electronic Decoys in PA??
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If any of you were reading the posts under the Red Hawk decoy topic you would have seen that JD and I were wondering how we could get Pennsylvania to change its law regarding electronic decoys for crows.  You are allowed to use them for trapping or hunting of furbearers, but that's it.

SO, I emailed the Pa Game Commission to see what it would take to get that law changed and here was their response:

"This would take an act of the General Assembly.  Thank you for your comments, which I will share with the Board.  However, you will want to urge your legislator to address this through an amendment to list of exceptions under Section 2308 of Title 34 (Game and Wildlife Code).  The Game Commission doesn’t have the authority to change Title 34"

Do you think something like this is possible to change in PA?  If so, maybe we ought to write our representative.  I personally know my legislator and she supports outdoor activities like hunting.  Maybe this is a great first step.  If a bunch of legislators hear from us...they may change it.  BUT - we need a uniform message.  Keep it plain and simple.  Allow the use of electronic decoys for furbearers and crows.  Or something like that. 

Let me know what you PA hunters think. 

Thanks,

Hammer

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Hammer
That sounds like the the best way to go,that way you can get some of the predator callers on board for shear weight.Maybe you should see if you can get some of the waterfowler guys on board also,if they cant use Mojo ducks and stuff,they may want to jump on the same issue.smile
And your right,keep it simple.The polititions are the only ones that can get away making things complicated so they can later "mission creep an issue"biggrin



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Shanedog

You may be on to something.  Get the waterfowlers invovled.  And, if I were to contact Mojo, I bet they would offer a SUPER support letter.  They want to sell decoys and if they would allow electronic decoys for crows, ducks, etc...  they would sell a bunch.

I'm sure there are sportsmen groups in PA that would support the fight as well.  Just have to get everything organized to professionally get our point across.

And I totally agree with keeping it simple.  Let them hammer out the wording and political stuff.



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Good thinking,Hammer!!!smile



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I have been e mailing the gc also I haven't got that awnser yet is that what we need to do is contact or legislator ? The gc also told me it depends on what artical it's under weather it's legislation or the gc board rules on it. I have not got a awnser back on exactly what to do. Let's put the pressure on them in the right way with every one as one. First let's find out who we need to adress. Then we can organize.

Hey any one from states that allow motorized decoys how exactly does your law read? That may help us.

Where can we get a hold of pa predator hunters any one know a forum on line? So once we decide what avanue to go we can get the ball rolling big time.

Currently in pa you can use a motion decoy as long as it is wind or manual ( string) powered no motors.

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Im for it down here in old washington pa....i was just getting ready to by a mojo one day untill I found this law out. I was quite upset and depressed. I want the fun and excitement.

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What is funny is gander mountian in nw pa has had mojo crows for years wonder how many they sold to unknowingly law breakers.

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JD, Leave a post on "Predators Masters"smile

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php





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Thanks after we figure out what we need to do then we can organize the masses.




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I know there are quite a few predator / crow hunters on HuntingPA.com also. There are also some very knowledgeable people that know how to get the ball rolling on getting new bills introduced. I think it is a little late in the year to get anything on the agenda for this year, but it isn't too early to get things started for next year.

I know that Gander Mtn. and other stores sell the electronic decoys, because they are legal in other nearby states. I am sure that someone has bought them not knowing the laws and used them.



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That's funny that you guys mention buying mojo crows at Gander.  I was in a hunt a few years ago and the one team said that they were using mojo crow decoys.  I said "Don't you know that they're illegal".. And they didn't.  So, how many others are using electronic dekes.

Tell you what, I will email the legislator I know and ask her how we should proceed.  If she doesn't know, she has staff that can research the issue.  That would be a great first step.  Once we know how to attack it...then we pounce..haha.

Thanks for all your comments and interest in this issue.  I really think it would add even more excitement to the wonderful sport we all love.

More to follow.

Hammer

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Found out what we need to do. Contact your rep threw this link if you don't know who it is. In the upper right hand corner you can find out who is yours by zip code.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/
I urdge any one in pa to call and ask them to change this hunting law.
Even if you hunt in pa you may try calling. I am gonna contact brad roae right now and later try and get the predator hunters to help. If some one allready has a forum name on any site please start a thread with that link and ask them to help us out.

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JD & others.

Good news.   I contacted Donna Oberlander with this issue.  She said that she would have her research team look into it AND talk to the Fish and Game Committee to see if it is a workable amendment.  And if it is, she will be happy to offer the amendment for us.

Keep your fingers crossed.  I agree with JD.. email, call, write a letter, etc. to your representative asking for an amendment to section 2308 (Title 34) of the Wildlife Code which would allow electronic decoys for crow hunting.

I'll keep you all updated.



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Hammer
just sent e mail to Brad about it. I'll keep you posted. I even offered to take him crow hunting :). Can't hurt may be if we get him hooked on black rain he will allow un plugged guns ;). No I really did offer all my books and info if he needed them, and a trip crow hunting( hope he can shoot )
I have spoke to brad before he is a common sense kind of guy. I'll let ya know what I find out.


By the way the pa GC was super prompt on returning e mails that's nice to know.

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JD,

I've met Brad before.  He seems pretty down to earth.

I was just as surprised as you were about the Game Commission being prompt with their email replies.  That's not how it use to be.  I'd email them a question and you'd never hear back.

Please do keep in touch and I will let you and others know what we find out.  We can't be the first two in PA to ever acquire about this but maybe we'll be more organized this time.

Talk to you later.

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I think it's more of a "we can't change there minds attitude"

I posted on the web site that was listed above and asked the mods on there if there was a way to post it so more people could see it.



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Everyone,

I emailed Mojo Outdoors yesterday to let them know what we are trying to do in PA.  I received an email from Terry Denmon (President & CEO of MOJO Outdoors) and in a nutshell he said:

- "we would be willing to help in any way we can"
- "we have data in support of using decoys"
- "they made no difference in the end population"

Advantages like:

1) conducive to better shots resulting in less cripples, 2) levels the playing field for the average hunter who cannot afford outfitters, leased blinds, ownership of better duck "holes", and 3) adds to success which keeps people involved in the sport who might otherwise fall out. Hunting license sales are down to about 5% nation-wide, and the one thing the hunting industry needs to do is to encourage hunting not discourage it.. We need fewer needless "thou shall nots"  and more "let them hunt by any and all moral and ethical means" , lest our sport goes away.



He was basically talking about duck hunting BUT I am sure we can gear an amendment to "let us hunt by any and all moral and ethical means" like Terry says.  Just open electronic decoys to all game in PA.


Just wanted to share.  I told him we would be in touch as we proceed. I think the ball may be rolling.

Hammer

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Had a fella on the predator forum tell me he tried this before and he failed.
I am going to keep on them every year till they change it.

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Contacted the pres and vice pres of ppha ( pen predator hunting asso. ) asking if they may help.

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Good idea JD.

Did the guy on the predator forum say why it failed?  Wonder what their argument is AGAINST the use of motion decoys?  Do they think they are too effective?  Too much game will be harvested?

I'm curious as to why it has never been permitted.



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He didn't elaborate but did try and sell me one of thoes kite crow things.

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Keep me in the loop, I would be happy to add my name to a letter or write one as well. I have a mojo crow that my wife bought and I used it once before I found out they were not allowed for crow hunting.

Does anyone have a interest to build a standard letter that we can forward or post on the web site so that visitors could just download, print and mail? That would drive participation. I would begin a draft letter if anyone is interested in collaborating.

John


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Can that be done? Wow
I thought a email to your rep or a phone call. If you would like feel free to jump in and help. I am glad to see more people jumping in every single person is a help.

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I'll take a look at the next NRA-ILA campaign letter I get. They know how to address the legislators with the right verbiage!

John


-- Edited by ecuchief on Wednesday 28th of July 2010 09:48:23 PM

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Yeah I posted a link to find yours by zip or county it even gets down to townships.

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OK, you got me motivated! Here's my rough draft... Once this is finalized, I can save it as a PDF and re-post.

John smile



To the Honorable (Representative's name),

 

Under Pennsylvania law, it is permissible to use electronic calls to take wildlife when hunting bobcats, foxes, raccoons, coyotes and crows. The use of any electronic or mechanical device used to attract coyotes for hunting or trapping was recently changed in Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code. I am asking you to propose a change to the exception, as noted below, to include crows as well as coyotes.

 

Please consider proposal for change to Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code, Chapter 23. Hunting and Furtaking, Subchapter A. General Provisions, Sec. 2308. Unlawful devices and methods, (b) Exceptions, (5) any electronic or mechanical device used to attract coyotes for hunting or trapping.

 

<Add justification?>

 

Thank you for your time and consideration of my view and opinion.

 

Respectfully,

 

(Hunter’s Name)



-- Edited by ecuchief on Wednesday 28th of July 2010 10:18:10 PM

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Should it say mech decoys or do I not understand legal jargun?

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Ecuchief,

You are definitely on the right track.  Sounds pretty darn professional if you ask me.  I haven't heard back from my state rep yet so I'm not sure how to proceed.  Definitely got to get the bug in their ear.

Thanks again.

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Hey Hammer sic Jonthepain on em.LOL. He will have the state sending you a free mojo crow by morningLOL

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Got some good news today brad roae's office called me and basicly told me getting it done threw the general assembly ( state reps) would probably not work as well as contactin the pa game commission's 8 comissioners and I was given my areas commisioners number. So I called him great guy he said he is going to bring it up the next meeting here soon. To get in contact with them( the commisioners) e mail the pa game commision and put it to the commisioners and he said by doing that , that all 8 commisioners would see that e mail. I don't know if there contact info is on there to call them but he did say that snowgoose hunters are opening the door for motion decoys so we have a good chance he said that from my call the ball has started to roll. He had lots of questions on crow hunting as he has tried it before I pointed him to this site and he has been here before.
I will post the link to the commisioners e mail ect later tonight.

Pa boys this sounds good so far for getting them busters legal in pa

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i heard mojos scare the crows!!!.












ahhahaha....j/k

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Yes they do,but so what,Mojo also wants to sell predator,duck,dove and other products. Better to have them in the movement and any other decoy maker Like Fox Pro, Edge by Expidite, etc.     smile

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GREAT WORK JD!

I'll have to get in touch with some of the commissioners as well.  The more people that contact them, the better.

Mojo crows actually scare the crows???  I've never heard that but I've never researched it cause we are not allowed to use them.  I think the Buster decoys would work awesome.

Thanks again.

Hammer

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If and when they pass it a buster will be in route to nwpa asap.

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When you e mail the commisioners include all your contact info they will probably contact you to get info. Help our sport and send them a e mail.

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pgccomments@state.pa.us
here is the email adress
adress it to commisioners


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Polish Hammer wrote:



Do you think something like this is possible to change in PA?  If so, maybe we ought to write our representative.  I personally know my legislator and she supports outdoor activities like hunting.  Maybe this is a great first step.  If a bunch of legislators hear from us...they may change it.  BUT - we need a uniform message.  Keep it plain and simple.  Allow the use of electronic decoys for furbearers and crows.  Or something like that. 

Let me know what you PA hunters think. 

Thanks,

Hammer





I will let you know what this PA hunter thinks.  If you feel like getting pro-active, the first thing that NEEDS to get passed is Sunday hunting for all species.  No ifs ands or buts.

Personally I'm glad I don't have to keep up with the Jones' buying battery powered junk made in China.  If you really feel like you need to use them, just do it.  I doubt anyone would care if you use it for crows.  Don't put it in plain sight and you'll never have a worry.  The problem is, if electronics were legal, everyone will have to have one, or two, or six, for doves, ducks, geese, crows, and probably anything else with wings.  We already send enough money to China, we don't need to send more.


Hey ecuchief, this is Jeremiah, we hunted together this winter at one of your spots.   I told you I would sign up eventually.  Seemed like a good time with board being wiped.  How have you been?  


 



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I just emailed the Commissioner (Commissioner Martone) that covers our area.  Hoping to hear back.  I see that they have a Commissioners meeting on October 4-5.  I know others have contacted them about the use of motion decoys so we'll have to wait and see.

If you go to the other post on this site that shows a sample letter to state reps...the same thing can be use to send an email to the Commissioner in your area.

As for "If you really feel like you need to use them, just do it.  I doubt anyone would care if you use it for crows.  Don't put it in plain sight and you'll never have a worry."..I follow the laws set forth by the game commission whether I agree with them or not.  I'm sure there are some (in PA) that use motion decoys when it's not permitted...but I'm not one of them.

Keep touching base with the PA Game Commission.  We may have a chance.

Hammer

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Hi Jeremiah! Welcome to the boards. Been doing good. Haven't gotten out much but I hope that changes soon. I'll keep in touch with you when I get something lined up again.

Take care,
John


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I was just reading the posts on this. I had a chance to talk to a WCO up here in NW PA about electronic or mechanical decoys. He told me it was a Federal issue relating to the federal migratory bird laws. If caught with one of these decoys it would include a Federal fine in addition to a Pa fine. Do not have to have a duck stamp for hunting crows but do to hunt doves which also prohibits use of mechanical decoys. At least that's what the WCO told me.

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Most the wild life control officers only use THERE interpitation of the law. I have had a few tell me a few things " off the top of there heads" only to be wrong. If they are migratory birds and covered under that why don't I need a stamp. Not that I want it.
The game commision needs to get there act together and offer a adult combo license like they do the youths it would bring in more revinue IMO

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Hammer:

Need to think outside you box, man - your primary objective should not be to convince the state legislature to change the law to allow electronic decoys in PA, which is really your secondary objective.

Let them know that you have an easy, revenue positive solution that solves three real problems that every one is aware of (I'm guessing here but I'll bet I'm not far off base):

1. The acutely depressed Pennsylvania economy.
2. The glaring Pennsylvania Fish and Wildlife Department budget deficit. (Don't know but its probably true).
3. The unfair allocation of natural resources to Ohio, West Virginia, etc.

If they would pass the law allowing mechanical and electronic (duck, dove, crows, [fill-in-the-blank]) decoys as suggested in this string;

  • More PA citizens would hunt and many would be purchasing hunting licenses and land use fees, putting more natural food on the table.
  • More voters engaging in such a healthy, outdoor, family-friendly activity would be a great morale boost.
  • More people hunting results in sales of decoys and more sales of hunting clothing, gasoline, hotel rooms, restaurant meals, camping gear, firearms and ammuniton.  Besides increasing the velocity of the Keystone State's money supply, sales and use taxes are miraculously generated that might otherwise go to the coffers of neighboring states!!
  • And, if the neighboring states allow the use of electronic decoys, why, your case is made!!!  Why should those Buckeyes get all the ducks, crows and dove?!?!
  • Why, PA may prove to be a mecca for well-heeled, out-of-state hunters to come visit.  If you could just buy and use some electronic decoys . . .
Frame your request in that manner and it becomes a no-brainer.  Increasing commerce by any degree is a desireable outcome in these times.  Add in increased tax revenues and no projected outflow of cash from the state coffers and who would say "no"? 

State lawmakers want to fund deficits with easy, winning programs and ideas that have little risk.

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