This picture was taken by my hunting partner of several decades. He shoots a great deal, pattern tests his guns and reloads. He is also a taxidermist and can answer questions about duck feathers vs. crow feathers and skin thickness etc.
Below is a pattern on a life size crow target. Load was 7/8 ounce of magnum 6 lead shot at 40 yards. The gun was a Parker 30" VHE 20ga with 24 thousands of constriction. The load has 197 pellets on average. The crow body was struck by at least 15 #6 pellets.
Please note there is no place for a crow to escape multiple hits by this gun and load. I believe this puts to rest the myth that there are not enough pellets in a 7/8 ounce load of #6 shot to hit a crow with enough pellets to bring it down at an extended range.
The same gun same range using 7/8 of hard 7.5's fewer pellets actually hit the crows body with 11 hits.
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 8th of November 2010 10:17:55 PM
that seems super tight at 40yards, ide never be able to hit anything! :)
Dano
hi, i did not mark all the shot around the crow just the ones close on both pics, there is more shot in side the 30 ich circle on both targets. the point is there is no crow getting out of the harder hitting 6s and that is what we have been trying to say wright along. the closer you get 25 yds the crow is dead with any shot 6,7,71/2, 8 ,81/2 ,9's 20 hits with 6's or 100 hits with 9's dead is dead but at 40 = (because i don't know how to call them that good,but i can hit them that good) 6's work great! now were done try them your self and see
ps i shoot alot of test with alot of loads most of the summer, this is how i come up with the loads to test on game, like duck,pheasant, wood****,crow, goose, pigeon,deer between ga. and chokes, shot- lead , bismuth , niceshot, i tested 100 rounds or more this past summer . i came up with the info from all test like this and 40 years of hunting and 36 years of crow hunting i am now 50 and hope i have 40 more years and places to left. ok now i am done -- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Monday 8th of November 2010 09:44:10 PM
-- Edited by 10gacrowshooter on Monday 8th of November 2010 10:01:45 PM
All this proves is that your shotgun patterns sixes better than seven and one halfs. Picture is worth a 1000 words...as they say ...or your friends gun that is... Ted
-- Edited by M12Shooter on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:08:17 AM
__________________
Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid. John Wayne
You are right Ted it did show what that particular gun could do. However it also shows that 7/8 ounce of #6 has enough pellets to produce an effective pattern for killing a crow at 40 yards and beyond.
There have been claims made here that this load in particular will produce a pattern with too many holes in it to be effective thus justifing the use of smaller shot.
JD, both are most likely coming to the ground, shotgun patterns and where crows are hit are different from one bird to the next but in this example the bird hit by the #6 pellets was struck with 248% more ft lbs of energy by pellets that penetrate ballistic gelatin at 40 yards 40% deeper.
The discussion has never been about what is good enough, it has been about what is better, and at longer range because the closer the shot any shot size will work.
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 07:55:10 AM
All this proves is that your shotgun patterns sixes better than seven and one halfs. Picture is worth a 1000 words...as they say ...or your friends gun that is... Ted
-- Edited by M12Shooter on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:08:17 AM
hundres of test with all ga.'s and shot size and ckoke, not just this one test !!!
Shooting from a bench rest at cardboard is not the same as a hunting scenario. More pellets and a more open pattern will still take out a crow at 40 yards.
All this proves is that your shotgun patterns sixes better than seven and one halfs. Picture is worth a 1000 words...as they say ...or your friends gun that is... Ted
-- Edited by M12Shooter on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:08:17 AM
hundres of test with all ga.'s and shot size and ckoke, not just this one test !!!
True, when I have patterned my shotguns with an intended load(s) I usually shoot six papers and toss the odd number. More test pattens would be even better but it's a bit of a hassle with the big paper and all. Just the same when working up a rifle load, toss the odd flyer, whacky muzzel velocity, etc.
Ted
__________________
Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid. John Wayne
Wish you had marked all the holes both inside and outside the circle... not just the ones on or near the crow. The entire pattern here...would be helpful in determing effectiveness of this load.
Wish you had marked all the holes both inside and outside the circle... not just the ones on or near the crow. The entire pattern here...would be helpful in determing effectiveness of this load.
skip
hi, 7 1/2 load shot 68% and 6's shot 70 % so very close the point was, people said "to many holes in pattern with 6' s" that is not true! this is the way all shotguns are patterned 30 in. 40 yds. this is standard all over the world. just like when you sight in a rifle you bench it first than you learn to shoot off hand but you have to get a baseline to work from and that is what the test does not tell how good of a shot you are!!!
remember this is 40 yds you might want to shoot at crow 55yds (just because he won't come in and "you suck at calling" ) the crow is not waiting for you to change shells. the 1 st post was i hit alot of birds and they did not fall.they might be higher than you think (6's) or your just not on them if your not on them 9's won't help or 6's . but at 1 to 55 + yds 6's will work the rest is up to you!
All this proves is that your shotgun patterns sixes better than seven and one halfs. Picture is worth a 1000 words...as they say ...or your friends gun that is... Ted
-- Edited by M12Shooter on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:08:17 AM
hundres of test with all ga.'s and shot size and ckoke, not just this one test !!!
True, when I have patterned my shotguns with an intended load(s) I usually shoot six papers and toss the odd number. More test pattens would be even better but it's a bit of a hassle with the big paper and all. Just the same when working up a rifle load, toss the odd flyer, whacky muzzel velocity, etc.
Ted
hi, if you shoot alot of paper with shotguns you will find 6's do shoot the best patterns from 20 ga to 10 ga (remember hundreds of test not just this one, i can't save them all) i test than let the test do the talking i'am just the messenger! i have nothen to win from this just telling it like it is. weather i like it or not
That is a good long range pattern but it does not take anything away from shooting 7-1/2s with a more open choke. You mention that there are no holes in the pattern for the crow to escape. I see a whole lot of places - all around the periphery. That pattern is going to be smaller and harder to hit with at 25 yard than a 7-1/2 load through and IC.
I've never heard anyone say that 6s are too big for crows or too low on pellet count. It is just that a load of #6 will require more choke to keep the same pattern density, which necessarily decreases the pattern size.
It all depends on what you want out of your shells.
-- Edited by FullandFuller on Monday 15th of November 2010 04:16:32 PM
FullandFuller, if my friend made an error it was he failed to mark ALL the pellet holes inside the 30" circle so the camera would pick them up. He told me it was approx 130 out of 197 for a 66% pattern. The emphasis was on what happened to a centered crow from a load that was deemed by some here to not have enough pellets to be effective at longer range.
Yes it is harder to hit a crow at 25 yards with a full choke vs. an IC, but we are talking inches in difference. Success depends on shooter skill. A full choke is more lethal at all ranges provided the shooter has mastered enough wingshooting skill to handle it.
What 7.5's and 8's lack at longer range is retained velocity and thus energy. Most shotgunners err in range estimation and take longer than they think shots. Full and 6's are not for everyone, but they help when say the 35 yard bird is really a 47 yard bird as an example.
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 15th of November 2010 07:55:31 PM
,but i can hit them that good) 6's work great! now were done try them your self and see
