Crow Busters Forum

Rook-ie · Senior Member

Question for the community

Mark · Guru

So here's the situation. I just talked to the right guy about shooting where a large number of crows have been feeding.. The "guy" says the owner has "kids" (teenagers) "that like to hunt." These "kids," I'm told are on a skeet team.. So now the question: Do we take the kids? Say no invitees and risk loosing the place or just walk away? The location is not anywhere I have other spots....

Rook-ie · Senior Member

Even without knowing more about the situation (ages of kids, how many, how much other land the owner owns), I say a resounding "yes" take the kids. To me, here's the situation: large number of crows + kids who like to hunt + owner's kids + owner who might have more land + owner who most likely knows other landowners, some of whom might like to hunt or have a crow problem = go have fun!

Jerry

Mark · Guru

Thank you for your reply. I will take the kids.. Just didnt want to get them hooked at such a young age.. : ) and dont want any competition.. It will be fall before we shoot.. Ill make sure and post pics..

Bob · Guru

Mark, if you don't want competition wait until fall rolls around and then go while the kids are in school! This is the best way to handle it with no hard feelings. If you show them then you will most definately have competition, the choice is yours.

Bob A.

M12Shooter · Guru

I'd wait until the owner and kids were predisposed as Bob stated. Further, I've seen a few excellent trap and/or skeet shooters that had trouble hitting live birds under "real" hunting conditions.

Ted

Redditch · Guru

I'd take them, but show them a couple of crow/pigeon shooting decoy situation videos, and drum into them the sit still and don't move plus be quiet, untill the bird is in range.
Then setup a decoy rig in the yard, and get them to practice without ammo, only getting up slowly to fire when you say "range" pr "take him".
Once you are happy with the behaviour of the kids, then consider taking them.
After all, this is how we introduce the next generation, and over here we have an organisation called "Pass It On" that is devoted purely to introducing kids into field sports (shooting and fishing), as we are inundated with antis.
I am a regional advisor for this organisation (my area is northern Ireland), and because of the "troubles we have had here (and still have, just not publicised anymore), all firearms from the power of ONE Joule (0.6 ft/lbs) is restricted to someone with a Firearms Licence, which you can only get once you are 18. Makes introducing kids to shooting VERY difficult.

Big Honkers · Guru

I guess Im a little confused. So, the "right guy" and the landowner are two different people?

I'd also take a good hard look at the other properties in the area. You do not have to be right where the crows are feeding to have a good shoot.

Redditch · Guru

The right guy is always the one that owns the shooting rights, this doesn't always have to be the landowner or tenant, as the shooting rights can be sold or traded seperately.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

One of the greatest threats to hunting continuing as we have known it in our lifetimes is the lack of youth participation in hunting. One seldom wakes up and decides to become a hunter, it takes one to make one as they say. More power to people like 8Fisherman and Chip to name a couple who take the time and make the sacrafice of including young people in their hunts. Without future generations for us to mentor what good is our accumulated knowledge and experience? Good luck with your decision, I would lean towards including them and enjoy whatever good time comes out of it.

Mark · Guru

Thank you for all your input... I left a few questions out in my original email so I will try and clear up.. The "right guy" is a farm manager for many properties that are owned by weathly land owners. These land owners own land only to hunt for their family and friends etc.. The right guy said " I know where there are a "lot" of crows / hundreds and I can get permission. He said the owner had kids that like to hunt / shoot and will most likely want to go.. The area is one that I know has birds but I have not been able to find the owners and get permission..There is two pecan orchards not so far away that I have seen "lots" of birds... I tried to get permission but the owner said "let me think about it." Translation, No!! There are many hunt clubs in the area and they dont want other hunters on the land because of deer / dove / turkey..etc. I will take the kids depending on age / and how many /and number or birds seen feeding.... I would prefer not to take the kids as I like to shoot with my partner as we work very well together..It will be in the fall..

Redditch · Guru

Get your partner to go with you too, and both mentor the kids. As mentioned, people are not usually born hunters/fishermen, but are introduced to the sport. Many kids at first feel disgusted by gutting and skinning, or even just dispatching wounded quarry, but this is something you need to help them through too, as a true sportsman never lets a quarry suffer, but dispatches it quick, and if it's edible, will ensure its used.
All this knowledge and more you can impart on the youth of today, and should grasp the opportunity with both hands, as you will be rewarded with smiling faces, and maybe later invites to permissions THEY will gain later in life.
Plus, when people hear you are helping keep kids off the streets, and learning them fieldcraft, then you will also gain permissions.

Mark · Guru

I'm looking forward to shooting this place with these kids (if they come along) These kids come from well to do families and most likely have excellent equipment. (over and under's) As I mentioned these "kids" are on a skeet team... Skeet shooters usually use #8's or #9's..I wonder how they will do shooting #6's?

Redditch · Guru

Mark wrote:
. Skeet shooters usually use #8's or #9's..I wonder how they will do shooting #6's?

For crows in the States 8 and 9 shot will do, although I would use say 32 gram or 36 gram of it, whereas with European crows I would advise 5 or 6 as they tend to be a bit hardier, and smaller shot results in more wounded birds here. I think you'll find they will do just fine, so long as you can keep them still and quiet (Always a problem with kids)

Elkhunter · Senior Member

Take the kids. Beat safety into their heads even if you have to take turns shooting. Good cover will be paramount. You will just have to risk it.

Now, with all that being said, you know if the kids fall in love with hunting crows, they will buy the gear they need and become crow crazed hunters like us! LOL

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Redditch wrote:
Mark wrote:

. Skeet shooters usually use #8's or #9's..I wonder how they will do shooting #6's?

For crows in the States 8 and 9 shot will do, although I would use say 32 gram or 36 gram of it, whereas with European crows I would advise 5 or 6 as they tend to be a bit hardier, and smaller shot results in more wounded birds here. I think you'll find they will do just fine, so long as you can keep them still and quiet (Always a problem with kids)

Redditch, my understanding is European shot sizes differ from USA shot sizes. Your number 6 is our number 5 correct? You'll find the larger shot works better over here too.

Redditch · Guru

Yep, quite possible. But I noticed on many American crow shooting videos that people were using, 7,8, or , even 9 shot, and the crows were just folding. Over here, even 7.5 rarely causes a bird to fold, and often means hitting it several times to kill it ( I have seen crows here take 6 shots and still need their necks broken to kill them).
So here, mostly we will be using our no6 or No5, in 32 gram, and even no4 steel in 36 gram to ensure clean kills. The European crows seem to be slightly larger and hardier than any of the crows I've seen in American videos, and that includes the videos from Bob.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Redditch wrote:
Yep, quite possible. But I noticed on many American crow shooting videos that people were using, 7,8, or , even 9 shot, and the crows were just folding. Over here, even 7.5 rarely causes a bird to fold, and often means hitting it several times to kill it ( I have seen crows here take 6 shots and still need their necks broken to kill them).
So here, mostly we will be using our no6 or No5, in 32 gram, and even no4 steel in 36 gram to ensure clean kills. The European crows seem to be slightly larger and hardier than any of the crows I've seen in American videos, and that includes the videos from Bob.

Seems there is difference between US and English but not with European.

http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

32 gram is roughly equal to 1 1/8 ounce and 36 gram 1 1/4 ounce.

I prefer the 1 1/8 loading in 12ga and the 1 1/4 ounce in 10 gauge. The small shot works fine at close range, anything works when they are really close. #9 in my opinion is a crippler of game and should be left to the skeet field. #6 provides the ability to kill birds with complete authority through the full range spectrum of a shotgun. In my experience it is superior to the smaller sized shot especially at 40+ yards (US measure).

Redditch · Guru

Yep, in full agreement with you there. I tried the 7.5 trap loads a couple of times, and even using full choke it was still resulting in more wounded birds than out right kills, so I left it be, although it makes a fine pigeon load over decoys, it just doesn't work on corvids. I mostly now use UK and European no 6 shot or larger, and anywhere between the 32 and 36?gram loads, although over decoys the 36 gram no4 Steel wildfowling (duck) load does fine too.

NGillespie10 · Senior Member

Keep talking to those pecan orchard owners. They'll come around once they realize the benefits of removing a bunch of crop damaging crows.

jreba · Member

Hi Mark,can't speak for you ,can tell u of my own experiences.Years ago had a nice place out of town with a few acres and a very nice duck pond on it til the big "D" caused me to lose it. People would pull in all time and ask to hunt allways told them no cause I hunted it myself.One year during the duck season work got crazy busy and had no time to hunt it but odd hours these 2 guys pulled into the yard and asked my permission to hunt,young guys early 20s seemed nice and all, suddennly dawned on me what a waste that I had no time but why can't someone else enjoy this.So I told them no problem they could hunt but on one and only one condition,that was if I came down to hunt and they where there that I could hunt with them.They agreed and turned into one of the best few years of hunting I ever had. We had alot of fun and they started taking me to there other hunting spots and became good friends so ya never know.

Mark · Guru

I'm glad you had a good experience.. I think these guys will be a blast to shoot with.. as they have grown up around hunting and shooting.. Hopefully we will have a lot of uneducated birds and really have a productive shoot.. Pretty sure they won't aprreciate what they just got to experience and think it's normal..

chip · Guru

I just have to add in reference to shot size,,,,, Its not the size of the shot crippling the the bird,,,,,,,,,,, Its the shooter and the choke he chooses! biggrin biggrin I also agree with Bob A's comment on the competition end. You can't compete with Generation X. This generation doesn't sleep. If my soon to be 17 year old son finds the ducks or the crows or anything he wants to get, It will be gotten by him and nobody else. He don't sleep or eat or chase the females until he has a sack full of what he found feeding in the field he scouted. By the way I have promoted him to full choke biggrin Should have seen his handy work on the pigeons the other day, 15 yards or 50 stone cold rolls. It will be a jelly head by this fall on crows and pigeons.........

-- Edited by chip on Friday 29th of June 2012 03:04:01 PM

lawncrow · Member

Take the kids, you might learn something about wingshooting and make some friends in the process.