Crow Busters Forum

Mark · Guru

prairie dog hunting Wyoming

Bob · Guru

That is one accurate rifle you have there Mark.

Is it a 6mm ? What grain bullets were you using?

How many dogs did you get and how many days did you hunt? How much ammo did you use?

Mark · Guru

The rifle pictured is a Rem 700 in 223.. the rifle I actually shot the bird is a Savage Mod 12 in 6. BR. With 87 grVmax.. I held 3" left in the wind and it was a head shot.. oh how I wish it would have been a crow.. Two weeks of shooting.. took 4000 rounds of ammo..longest shot 571.. shortest 41 yds..

-- Edited by Mark on Friday 6th of June 2014 02:29:35 AM

Bob · Guru

Did you shoot all your ammo? If so you had one hell of a dog hunt.

So is the .6 a 6mm ? The bullet weight suggests .243 or 6MM ?

Mark · Guru

Yes, 6 mm or 243.. same bullet.. the 6 br. Is so accurate and the barrel doesn't heat up too badly. today is the last day of the hunt. I don't have any numbers yet but we have shot the shi$ out of them..

-- Edited by Mark on Friday 6th of June 2014 11:08:45 AM

-- Edited by Mark on Friday 6th of June 2014 11:35:45 AM

Bob · Guru

Mark,

My crow hunting partner just got back from North Dakota from a dog hunt. He shot up over 600 rounds of .22-250 hand loads in a week. He said it used to be much better up there years back before they started poisoning the prairie dogs. He said it was a "given" that one guy could shoot 3,000 rounds of ammo at prairie dogs in a weeks time; provided you did not get rained out on some days. But this was years ago not now in his hunting area.

Mark · Guru

Our last day was today.. fortunately weather was good..i.e. No rain.. no totals yet but left a lot of food for buzzards. Excellent trip. I have a 22-50. Shoots 50 gr Vmax.. very well..

Bob · Guru

I used to shoot the 53 grain Match Hollow Points out of my 22-250 at prairie dogs many years ago. Had an 18 power scope with a 1/8th inch dot.

Mark · Guru

Bob, when I previously mentioned missing the "crow" on my first shot; that rifle has the "multiple" lines in the reticle and I just can't seem to dial it in... all my other rifles have the 1/8" target dot and I love them..

-- Edited by Mark on Monday 9th of June 2014 05:07:59 PM

-- Edited by Mark on Wednesday 11th of June 2014 08:28:01 PM

Mark · Guru

I hate not to be on topic ( Crows) but... I just loaded a short video on youtube with my friend shooting his 6 BR. search " Porter with 6 BR Prairie Dog Hunting." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb1SZ5iMF98

-- Edited by Mark on Friday 13th of June 2014 05:00:21 PM

Bob · Guru

Mark, what does the B.R. stand for, bench rest?

It looks like you have a thumb hole stock, I had one on a .222 Shelin back in the 60's & 70's.

Mark · Guru

Yes, Bench Rest... I'm fairly new to shooting and my buddy has been shooting varmints for 50 years.. he has guided me thru bullets, reloading, scopes etc etc. I am very fortunate to have him as a friend and mentor.. I use Choate stocks. They are "sniper" stocks and for me it is all I will use.. they are usually used with bipods and I used to only shoot prone.. now with my friend we now shoot from bench only. The Choate stocks have a flat rear bottom and the use of a rear big does not work for elevation. I built a fast adjust front rest from a Porshe 944 scissor jack ( (all Aluminum) I added a external linear bearing to prevent any "slop" or play..it's fast and works like a dream.

Bob · Guru

That is the way to go shooting from a good bench.

I had to shoot off the roof of the pickup while standing in the bed. I used sand bags for a good solid hold on my targets.

So is your trip over or are you still hunting prairie dogs?

Mark · Guru

I got back on Sunday last week. Still unpacking etc. Threw the rifle in the safe Leaving for europe ( work) today. The rig we have now is fantastic. The bench is 1/4" plywood sandwiched between 3/4" extruded polystyrene insulation board weighs ~12 lbs. Strong and ridged. We arrive on the ranch each day at ~7:00 a.m. Hammer 'em until 5:00 or so.. usually set up 2 - 3 times per day.. my buddy will shoot 40 rds while I spot and then I shoot 40 rds.. etc.. most shots are 250 - 375 yds.. sometimes we get a "CD" ( close dog) less than 40 yds.. those get immediate attention.. too much fun..

Bob · Guru

It sure sounds like you enjoyed yourself. It's great to be passionate about what you love to do!

Mark · Guru

Like wise.. And you.. passionate about "du" crows. I checked on my pecan trees last evening ( newly planted / 44 / paper shell trees for the purpose of bringing in crows in ~5 years or so) and the guy that has the property had just cut hay and I saw ~75+.. oh boy.. can't wait 'till fall.. there is also guy that lives near the dove field / hay field and newly planted pecan trees... that feeds deer corn year round in his back yard.. he said he's seen 100 + crows in the mornings.. he is my friend...

Mark · Guru

So, I just returned from a week long trip in France and Geneva Switzerland.. crows everywhere.. the town of Annecy France has a huge roost in the trees and roofs of buildings at night... oh if only one could get permission in that liberal socialist haven.. now I'm in Washington dulles (IAD) airport and a dang crow flies over my parked plane and lands on the top of another parked plane.. I feel as though I'm being watched.. ha ha..

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

if you are into long range varmint or paper punching rigs, here is a good place to spend some reading time.

www.6mmbr.com/index.html

after the .222 was dethroned from its grip on the benchrest world a variety of 6mm's eventually started to take over. the 6br has a pretty wide application but i like it best at 600 yds and in. others use it all the way out to 1000 yards in open class competition. great accuracy potential, easy to load and not hard on barrels.

at longer ranges i prefer 6.5's. they on the other hand can be super hard on barrels. my current gun has about 750 rds thru it and i'm starting to chase the lands. barrel will need to be set back within the next few hundred rounds. how come all these hobbies cost so much?

Bob · Guru

BBB,

That is a very informative site, things have changed dramatically in regard to new cartridges and accuracy over the past 40 odd years. So what size groups can one expect at 600 yards out of the 6.br with a good hand load? Is the 6.br a wildcat or can you buy factory ammo for it? My dad loved to tinker with different wildcats back in the 1950's and 60's. The .219 Donnaldson Wasp was a tack driver in it's day along with the .222 cal.

When did the .222 get dethroned? I am not up to speed on this stuff so perhaps you could bring me up to date?

Mark · Guru

May 11, 2013, Rutherfordton, NC. Rodney Wagner shot .349" 5 shot group at 600 yds. 6 mm Dasher ( improved version of the 6 BR. Norma cartridge)

Bob · Guru

Wholly balls, that is under 1/2 inch!

I was lucky to get my .22-250 to shoot a 3 inch group at a third that distance!

Can you buy factory ammo or is it just a Wildcat cartridge?

Bob · Guru

Question for BBB or Mark,

In your opinion what is the two most important things in acheeving such outstanding accuracy? A. The newer powders on the market? B. Better bullet design? C. Better barrels? D. Better cartridges? E. Better bedding? F. Better optics?

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

Hey Bob
well i'm not nearly good enough to ever keep anything in 1/2 inch at that kind of distance. my gun has the potential to shoot into .25 moa consistenly when it has someone with good skills behind it. i can stay in the .3 moa range out to 300 without much trouble. but after that things open up for me. i average more like 3" plus at 600 but the gun can do better without me

Lapua makes ammo for it and that is where most of the brass for it is obtained. But then again Lapua tends to be preferred brass for many reloading applications.

I believe that the 222 was displaced in 1973 or 74 by the 22 PPC which was a wildcat from a russian cartridge----maybe the 762x39 parent. After the 22 PPC made its mark, the 6mm PPC came along. and then a pile of other 6mms

chasing those tiny groups is always a chore but I personally think there are a lot more top end bullets on the market these days. most long range guns are shooting a heavier bullet than normal whether the gun is a 20 caliber, 223, etc. something long and sleek with a great BC to slice thru the air. i don't think there were nearly the bullet options 40 years ago.

they still shoot palma class/open sights at long range but i think the quality of optics has really helped the average guy in recent years. looking at some of the old glass my dad has it is hard to imagine that you could hit anything with some of them. the clarity and features of some of the optics out there now is amazing.

Bob · Guru

BBB,

It just blows my mind that anyone can hit a little prairie dog at 600 plus yards! In places like South Dakota and North Dakota the cross wind can be a problem with the .22 cal. & .23 cal. because of the bullet weights they shoot. I suppose you can shoot pretty well out to 200 to 250 yards if you have a feel for doping the wind with the .223 cal. I can see why the 6.BR with 106 grain bullets would be a great help in breezy conditions. How much do those rifles weigh, how is the recoil? If you are shooting prairie dogs would the recoil be a problem with todays rifles or does it depend on the shooter himself in this regard.

Mark · Guru

The Savage Model 12 I shoot has a heavy barrel and that helps with recoil... The Choate Stocks I use a fairly heavy and I add custom steel weights to the inside forearm part of the stock.. the recoil is so lite that I can "stay in the scope" and watch the impact...

Bob · Guru

That is very good if you don't have muzzle jump and can see the impact of the bullet. It helps if you miss as well, you can readjust with the next round down range. So, does Lapua make factory ammo for the 6.BR or do you have to buy the brass and reload all your ammo?

Mark · Guru

I reload: I use Lapua brass, hornday VMAX ( 87 gr) bullets, CCI 450 magnum primer, Varget powder..Redding Competition Dies... I think Lapua makes ammo, but I choose to reload..

-- Edited by Mark on Tuesday 24th of June 2014 12:40:13 PM

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

there is always that decision about total gun weight. more helps you stay steady and suck up recoil but also makes gun less mobile if you planned to carry it to a stand, etc. i compromised and am on the lighter side using a mcmillan stock and krieger barrel with leupold scope as i was thinking more along lines of some varmints and informal paper punching versus serious target work when it was put together. if i was to upgrade it might be to better glass but what i have is adequate.

i recall using lapua factory loads awhile back so yes you can buy ammo if you wanted/needed. id assume norma also still makes factory ammo . lapua has a heavy load referred to as scenar or something like that. i reload but with 105 and 107grainers and mainly am worried about where its at compared to the lands. the sierra bullet has a big following which isnt a real surprise as it has a big following in 30 caliber also. i really like the bergers myself and have used some lighter hornadys too. vmaxs are sweet for critters eventhough my gun doesnt like em quite as well.

some of what ive read and some of the guys that ive shot with suggest that the 6mms and the 6.5 variations got a foothold in the long range shooting world that had been dominated by the 30 calibers for so long due to the milder recoil over an extended period along with good ballistics. guess it might be like comparing shooting a 250 round clay event shooting with 1 1/8oz loads versus 1oz or 1 1/4oz back in the old days. some guys can probably tolerate alot more of that abuse than others.

Skip · Guru

BBB: Very well described!!