do you all always buy the same shells or just whatever is on sale? I usually buy what's on sale within reason as long as it's 8 or 7 1/2 shot. I havent really been able to notice much of a difference until I bought some of the cheap Walmart ones (suprema brand). I was missing shots that I would have never done and my brother was doing the same thing. Only thing I can think of was the really cheap shells. Looked into and read where people where getting all kinds of velocities and random patterns. Who here buys the same shells all the time? Is it really that important as long as you just don't get the really cheap ones?
Dick & I did an experiment last season. I like the Federal Top Gun or the Federal ammo that is a field & target load. They are both 3 dram (powder) trap loads. I like the Remington 3 dram Gun Club Load. I don't like the Winchester load (3 dram) trap load that Walmart sells.
Dick loaded my gun so I did not know what he loaded it with, Federal or Winchester? The result was that I shot the Winchester as well as the Federal loads as long as I did not know what I was shooting! Bottom line........ it was all in my head!
I think Suprema is made in Spain Jacob.
In answer to your question I buy mainly Federal ammo at Walmart.
Yeah I found out where it was made after a little research. I still have two boxes I will use while busting some clays just to get rid of them. I just bought 2 flats from my older brother of Remington you where talking about and got a good deal ($60 for the both flats). I have been using mostly federal myself and seemed to like them. I didn't think there would be a large difference in the shells either but figured it was worth asking. Going to try them out this weekend. Also ordered some boo docked flockers. Excited to try those too.
I shoot lots of Federal Top Guns as they are still reasonably priced. Remington Gun Clubs are near impossible to find here these days but when they were common I shot these too. Once did a comparison between the two on the patterning board with several of my shotguns. Found that there was little difference between the two here. However, upon dissection of loads, its was clear that GC's were loaded with superior shot as Federal Top Gun Promo loads were stuffed with awful looking shot. But to answer your question, I will shoot any 3 dram 1 1/8 oz. target load I can purchase on sale.
Ted
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What works in my 11-87 is anything going 1300 fps.....I got to pay about a dollar more for stuff that works...oh well...ait a minute gentlemen I only implied the gun went (((BANG!))) not that i hit anything with them...anyways those folks with the pumps or doubles or single shots don't need to worry about any shells i think stuck in their guns...wait-I take that back-Honkers told me that the cheap 1200 fps wal mart loads didn't work in his 870 sooo....need to keep that in mind....I suppose then it is only good for doubles and single shot shot guns....
Coincidentally on another note i know this hunter who only uses a single shot shotgun because he thinks it is more "sporting"...well he isn't a crow shooter either! He doesn't like the 870 in example even though he had one and sold it off as a result of his philosophy
But I don't know anyone for whatever they use..one season years ago I used a single shot and did okay but remember this is NH..this isn't a 6 birds per minute shoot..which by the way...nice going Bob! That also was a spectacular shoot Pete and Scott! The heights described would call for a ten gauge!!
I never expend more than 2 shots per bird myself....I learned that just because the bird doesn't drop right away doesn't mean it didn't get hit...you can always tell too! I know someone who doesn't expend more than one shot per crow!
Years ago I used a double one year and I got -predictably-a "double"! Anyways here again that philosophy held true in this case too! Anyways...I don't know of anyone who got a three piebald shoot....that was pretty interesting! I only did two in one shoot myself...never again before or after!
But keep this in mind too; this was a much slower shoot than Pete or Scott too! I was raiding Vermont crows before those fields dried up and i wasn't allowed to go there any more anyways...so small loss but this very small roost of 50 crows did roost across in Vermont..nothing to get excited about...the year I was disallowed to hunt there anymore-new owner-it wasn't any good any more anyways...weird in any case because the crows despite having a very large cornfield would not eat in Vermont?!?!
Yeah I haven't found any shells that won't feed through my gun no matter how cheap I go. I have an auto loader that is inertia driven and that the only action I will buy now. It will eat anything you throw in it and has never jammed. I put several hundred rounds throught without cleaning it just to see if it would keep going and it never missed a beat. I am with you on the shot size and load. I use 8s or 7.5s in 1 1/8 oz 3 dram.
As a competitive sporting clays shooter for the past 10 years, I can tell you that unless you are shooting targets at 75+ yards out, the most important factor is where you place your barrel. Look for the best price and it will serve you well in most situations.
Having said that, there are a few issues that occasionally come up with either extreme cold or high moisture conditions. For instance, the powder used in Rio shells are prone to "pops" vs. "bangs" in extreme cold. Likewise, I have had a few problems with shells stored for a long time in high humidity conditions. Mostly rusting bases (only cosmetic) and "pops" on a few shells.
Hope this helps.
Demi
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The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
On the subject of moisture, I had several flats of Federal ammo get soaking wet last season. I shot them up the other day and the heads were corroded and rusted around the primer pockets on the hulls that were the bottom five in each box. They looked dreadful but still worked in the semi auto.
Jacob,
When you experience a pop, you will know it. Usually about half as loud as a bang
Bob,
Awhile back I was shooting a tournament in a driving rain. When my turn came I reached into my vest for shells. The shells were I the bottom of two pockets full of water! They shot with no problems. Another time during rain a friend stored shells overnight in a cooler that leaked water into it. By morning most shells were duds.
Demi
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The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
I buy Remington gun clubs the most, nitro 27, and even their game loads cause they make really good hulls for reloading. I haven't started reloading yet but when I do I'm gonna have a lot of empties.
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A SUPER 90 and a crow in range, life is good. A good sandwich and bag of M&Ms doesnt hurt either.
For those of you around a Cabelas, give their "house brand" Herters a try. We are standardizing on them at this time, in answer to Jacob's original question. I understand they are loaded for Cabelas by Fiocchi and we find they perform very well on crows and sporting clays. We use their "Low Recoil" version at 1050FPS (1 & 1/8 ounces of 7.5 shot) in our TCP "Metro" barreled guns and they function in our Browning Maxus's much better than the 900FPS Federal Metro Field loads. They also load full power versions, such as one with a 1 and 1/8 ounce of 8's or 7 1/2's at 1290FPS, they work well, too.
They are priced at $64.99 a case here is the Dallas/Fort Worth Area and routinely on sale for $54.99. Combined with the occasional $20.00 off Cabelas Bucks Coupon on an $100 purchase, you can snag of couple of cases for $44.99 a case. Now we are talkin'!
I've always used the 100 round bricks of Federal that you can buy at walmart (usually about $22 per brick) and have always had great patterns with 7.5 shot. I bought a brick of Winchester last year and found some feed issues through my Remington 870. They still pattern well, but when I go to rack a second shot, more than half the time I get some issue between the expended shell and the new shell from the tubeck wedging into each other and getting stuck. Never have this issue with Federal. Not sure what would be different between the two shells, but shooting Winchesters prevented me from taking follow-up shots.
I am sold on the Gun Club loads. I shoot the 3 dram 1 and 1/8 ounce 7.5's. 1200 fps.. I do experiment with chokes from time to time. I have pretty much left the Angle port arms open water choke in my gun for the last 3 seasons. You would be amazed at the people that pay more attention to price instead of speed and quality. I shoot Federal ammo at waterfowl. 3 inch 2's at everything 1550 FPS. The adjustment is automatic for me. It is paramount when working with kids when they are learning to shoot to stick with the exact same fps. I started my son at 9 years old. Same load same FPS. He used to complain when he got older that when he and his friends went to shop for shells for an upcoming waterfowl excursion he always had to buy the 1550's when the 1400's or the 1375's were on sale. He always helped his friends get their limit on every trip they took. Now he is deadly in a crow hide or duck blind. Yes I pay 8 or 10 bucks extra a case for them. But I hit what I shoot at. Case after case the shells do their job and put the birds on the ground. I'm a firm believer in the power piston wad that Remington had sense enough to patend years ago. Check out the difference in the federal wad and the Remington wad. No comparison. It makes a huge difference in patterns. Its a blast hunting with guys that don't pay attention to the speed of their ammo. I always get to kill more birds, except when crow hunting, they educate way to many birds
I usually will pick up the Suprema's shoot them through a 28" 870 windy days I may shoot a full, bread and butter though is a modified... With cold weather here a pump is more reliable! I haven't noticed much of a patterning problem with the suprema's..I haven't paper tested them though.
-- Edited by Wingsetter on Friday 12th of February 2016 10:18:00 AM
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I recently found the RIO"S on sale and bought a couple cases of the 9's for pigeons. I will have to say they are reliable and pattern very well. The 9 shot does not cut it very well past 30 yards tho, might as well be shooting salt at them.
I like the Rio game loads. I use the 7.5, 1 1/8 ounce 3 1/4 dram. They shoot real well for me and burn real clean. I get them for $49.50 a case through a connection I have which is a really good price to.
Recently, we were talking about Mr. Digby over in England. He shoots #5 or so (labeled as such) during his hunts. I almost hate to ask, since I can't (yet) load my own, but anybody use that size shot, like King George? I'm figuring one would have to reload, as I never see them on sale around here.
Question # 2 about George Digby's O/U gun; it appears to have no automatic ejectors, as he's always pulling them out by hand. Is that simply a feature of his favorite shotgun, or do you guess that he simply likes pulling hulls from the chambers himself. Just wondering.
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Aren't UK 5s equivalent to US 6s? Ive seen conversion charts that say so but I do not have "hands on" experience with UK loaded shells.
OA, I've loaded several cases of #5s that were used on crows. They work fine but my favorite load is 1oz of #7s. I don't plan on buying #5s anytime soon.
Also, I never bought into the "shoot the same speed" type of hype. IMO, a human who thinks they can (or have to) change their lead/swing/mount/shooting style at birds in normal hunting distances because of a speed printed on a shell box is simply fooling themselves. ...not intending to open a can here...just my humble opinion.
I respect your opinion NH but the next time you go to the duck or goose pit, take a box of the Remington Nitro hyper speeds with you and dont change your lead. watch the birds flare up when you shoot at them. 150 feet per second makes a big difference. Or buy 3 boxes of game loads at 1190 fps and 1 box of federals at 1375 fps and shoot a round of skeet without changing your lead. It will make a difference. 50 yards in 1 second is a difference.
Speed kills.....shoulders and guns. A crossing target from station 4 (skeet) requires 41.23" of lead, when the shot leaves the muzzle @ 1100 fps. Starting @ 1150 fps, lead is 39.44". 1200 fps requires 37.80" and 1250 fps needs 36.28" of lead.
150 fps difference in MV makes a difference of less than 5" in the lead on a skeet hard crosser. This is from the Skeet Review, December, 2006 issue, figures from the Hodgdon Powder Co.
The only thing all that extra velocity will do is beat you and your gun up with recoil. With a 1 ounce loadyou will get recoil of about 13 ft. lbs. with the 1100 fps load but you will get 17 ft. lbs. with the 1250 fps load, 31% more recoil when using a 7-1/2 lb. gun.
The old timers knew what they were doing, the best patterns come from relatively slow loads, 1100 - 1200 fps, when they needed to kill at longer range or shoot bigger birds they increased the mass of the pellet i.e. used a larger shot size.
150 fps faster, the amount of lead decrease is inconsequential but the amount of recoil increase is huge.
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Sunday 31st of January 2016 02:30:02 PM
I agree with you 100% on the fact that the pellets will reach the target faster with a higher velocity shell. There is no doubt there.
I hear folks talk about shorter leads due to higher speeds all the time. Again, I guess I cannot really dispute that point.
What gets me is when I hear folks talking about changing how they shoot because of numbers printed on the box. I think that is a pretty far fetched viewpoint.
Look at the numbers posted above by NH. IMO, if a fella thinks they are able to adjust their shooting with a moving gun on a hard crossing moving target by less than 5 inches at a fair distance...they are fooling themselves.
I assume NH's numbers where on lead shot. Steel shot is an entirely different animal. It has less retained energy and slows down even faster.
Last year I had a crow hunt where I shot a good number of birds. I used a "grab bag" case of shells. The case was filled with shells loaded with Promo, ProReach, 700x, and Longshot powders. Shot sizes in that case were 7.5, 7, 6, and 5. I also had some unknown shells that came from when I switched over powders/shot sizes during the reloading process and forgot to keep track of where the new loadings started. There were 1oz and 1 1/8 loads mixed throughout the case. Book speeds on those loads would have been from 1150 to over 1400...a difference of more than 250fps. I killed 192 crows that day. I shot 266 shells that day, the bulk of which came from the "grab bag" case. That is 72%. I shot all shells the same as I always do. If I would have had to adjust my shooting leads with all those various load and speed combinations I would have pulled my hair out.
...now dont tell me I would have shot 82% if they were all the same speed, lol.
To me, it is just another example of how shooting experience trumps all. I suppose shooting the same speed shell may be ideal but I would not spend an extra dollar in pursuit of same speed shells. Its just not worth it.
Again, these are just my thoughts. I hope everyone shoots loads that makes them the most confident shooter.
All the best,
BH
PS - Chip, hope your "retirement year crows" have arrived!
Well fellas I'm no Ben Carson by no means! LOL! But I am one of those old timers you talk about. Started shooting competitively at age 11. Back in the 60's you had 2 choices of things to do in my part of the country stay in the house or go outside and shoot. I was fortunate to have a trap and skeet range within bicycle distance from my house. Every free second I had I was on that range. Its all I did. I learned from old guys that wore the that old dry duck material hats n vest and smoked pipes n chewed twist. I shoot a lot of light load steel at crows. I just know that when or if I shoot 1375 fps steel at crows instead of 1200 fps at em my percentage goes way down. Maybe it is a mental thing. For me lead shot is the same way. If its not 1200 fps my percentage goes way down. Maybe its like fishing! If bass are biting a crank bait and I'm throwing a Bandit I will put ten times the fish in the boat than I will with any other crank bait. And I am also a believer that shooting at crows can blow any shooters mind and his opinion out of the water. No bird in the world can be coming straight at you at 60 mph and stop mid air and turn and go the other way in a 5th of a second. Crows do it with ease. I'm a firm believer that consistency is the key to success. I have proven it to myself for 45 years give or take. Its all about the individual I guess. No amount of math will ever change it for me.
As far as my retirement season goes, well its not good. I remember Bob and other guys on this site talking about how detrimental roost shooters were. I never could get the concept because I never had to deal with it around here. Well I am dealing with it now. This younger generation beats all I have ever seen. Im hoping it is just a fad that will die off. It is not looking good though. I had it good around here for several years. Zero competition and all the crow shooting I wanted. I kept quite and never involved anybody that didn't know how to keep their mouth shut but a shotgun makes noise and birds fall from the sky. It has caught up to me finally. If it continues I will shut down and go back to fall fishing. Maybe go out on rare occasions. Nothing last forever. I have learned a lot and gotten pretty good at this sport as well as enjoyed it as much as humanly possible. But I swear I will burn everything I own that has anything to do with crow hunting and take everything I've learned to the grave before I pass it on to a roost shooter. They have a blast for 2 evenings then it is over for everybody. without a doubt it is the most despicable thing a man can do in my book. makes me want to puke.
