Just curious! How many here hunt with a SXS, what make and model. Photos would be cool also. I love SXS shotguns and use a Mossberg Silver Reserve on most hunt.
__________________
"The reason a dog has so many friends, he wags his tail instead of his tongue"
"I dont always listen to Black Sabbath, But when I do so do the neighbors"
I really enjoy my SxS's, I use a 20ga Ithaca made in the early 1900's to bust bushy tails and have several from 410 to 12ga but that said I never have tried crows with them. Son tried his Browning O/U and there's not enough room to load in our size blinds. Goin to "Bucket List" it, and next season take one on a hunt but I will have the Auto if it gets busy! Very nice SxS you've got. Enjoyed the post.
I have for the most part hunted exclusively with antique classic American doubles for the last 15 to 20 years. A lot of guns have come and gone over the years. I was pretty much focused on Parker Bros. doubles, but have expanded my interest and ownership to include an occasional Fox, Baker, Lefever and Remington double gun. My long time friend and hunting partner has been a more avid trader and he has added to the mix many more guns including some Ithaca's. We have used 10, 12 and 20 gauge doubles on crows. Varying weights, barrel lengths, stock configurations and chokes. Old double guns are hobby unto themselves, maybe a curse, one can spend a lot of time looking for the next neat, rare, unusual gun. All our guns are "shooters" for the most part, not the rather rare, lots of bling, super expensive high grades. We both have found reloading and shooting 2 7/8" chamber 10ga guns, using light loads, 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 ounce, to be very satisfying for their incredible long reach and because shooting one makes you unique. I have kind of settled with two guns for crows these past few years. A Remington Model 1894 AE 10ga from 1905 with 30" barrels and a Parker Straight grip VH with 28" barrels from 1930. I love the long range performance of the Rem 10 and versatility of being able to select a barrel with 6 thou of choke or 27 thou of choke instantly with the 12ga Parker. Some of our guns have Damascus barrels and we shoot nothing but nitro powder loads. I don't suggest anyone try this until you learn about and can measure barrel wall thickness and can reload shells that are called "period correct" for these guns; lower pressure, lower velocity. Most of the old composite guns are far stronger than we were lead to believe and not the pipe bombs that we were warned about in our youth. These days composite barrel guns command about the same prices as fluid steel as more and more collectors and shooters have learned they can be used safely.
Remington 1894 AE 10ga
Remington AE and Parker NH 10ga guns
Parker 12ga 28" straight grip VH
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Friday 26th of February 2016 06:36:45 AM
Nice looking Silver Reserve! Personally I like my doubles stacked, so I shoot O/U. First choice is Zoli which I shoot sporting clays with. I have a new one that is due to be delivered shortly after the stock is finished. With the crows, however, I'm too much into the numbers so I like the un-plugged autos in battle.
Demi
__________________
The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
Nice looking Silver Reserve! Personally I like my doubles stacked, so I shoot O/U. First choice is Zoli which I shoot sporting clays with. I have a new one that is due to be delivered shortly after the stock is finished. With the crows, however, I'm too much into the numbers so I like the un-plugged autos in battle.
Demi
Demi, because crows are lumped in with migratory waterfowl in US law many states in the US, mine included, mandate pumps and autos be plugged for no more than three shots. If the plug law applies where you live you are not giving up much by using a double.
Demi, because crows are lumped in with migratory waterfowl in US law many states in the US, mine included, mandate pumps and autos be plugged for no more than three shots. If the plug law applies where you live you are not giving up much by using a double.
NHC: Interesting how some states interpret that differently. I forgot how crows ended up on the Migratory List in the first place (the Senator from HI?) but MI allows NMT 6 rounds (three for some species, geese, wood****).
Sometimes I fergit' during the heat of battle and stuff 7 in the old M-12 "canoe paddle."
("Uh uh, Mr. Crow. I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire seven shots or only six?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a 1926 Winchester Model 12 with a 2 3/4 inch round with 1 1/8th oz. of lead pellets in it, traveling at 1250 feet per second at its Poly-Choked muzzle, and at least in the immediate vicinity, the most powerful shotgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, Mr. Crow?"
(I just noticed that the species name, "woodco*k" was censored. I spelled it wood,see,oh,see,kay. I didn't know we (a) had an automated system on this site or (b) have mods who have not heard of that species. Oh well...)
-- Edited by Old Artilleryman on Friday 26th of February 2016 11:15:23 PM
__________________
"Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave." -- Andrew Fletcher 1698
As they say: "When there's lead in the air, you have a prayer..."
Our state allows unplugged guns, too. Another advantage with more shells in the magazine is that there is a lot less movement when the crows are flying overhead. This is a particular advantage over SXS's or O/U's.
Demi
-- Edited by Island Shooter on Friday 26th of February 2016 06:59:06 PM
__________________
The man who thinks he can, and the man who thinks he can’t are both right.
When crows are pouring in -not singles and doubles-your double is not going to deliver the numbers.....you'll get a lot depending upon your resource but you'll be down by half meaning you could have gotten one extra crow based on the circumstances....if you don't care or you got slow shooting anyways this is no big deal. The double will suffice but in most areas of the country where the shooting can be hot your double is a lesson in frustration....you'll burn out and drop like a rock in a well in your blind from exhaustion...
__________________
Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
When crows are pouring in -not singles and doubles-your double is not going to deliver the numbers.....you'll get a lot depending upon your resource but you'll be down by half meaning you could have gotten one extra crow based on the circumstances....if you don't care or you got slow shooting anyways this is no big deal. The double will suffice but in most areas of the country where the shooting can be hot your double is a lesson in frustration....you'll burn out and drop like a rock in a well in your blind from exhaustion...
Doubles have never been or source of frustration or cause for exhaustion in this part of the country. We do every once in awhile have 100+ bird days during the annual fall migration. I almost always hunt with a partner and we shoot in a rhythm where one takes the first shot, then it's the other persons turn. When birds are pouring we almost always kill on the first shot and when you do you reload that barrel while the other guy is shooting. A couple of years ago we had a situation unique to us, 8 minutes of flat out non stop shooting at seemingly endless line of crows. In spite of our slower rate of fire we knocked down 54 birds. Classic doubles are not everyone's game, they are however our game, and we enjoy everything about them, their history, their craftsmanship, their antiquity and their performance. A cliche from the world of Harley Davidson Motorcycles applies to them; "if I have to explain, you won't understand".
A double will also teach you to be a better wing shot, just as a bolt action teaches you to be a better rifleman. I have seen way too many users of automatics in the field used by people who rely on the spray and pray method of wing shooting and they don't keep up in numbers with an accomplished wing shooter using a double.
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Sunday 28th of February 2016 12:27:02 PM
Know of a Man that makes his bows, arrows and arrowheads the same way the Indians did and he kills great bucks. That said hunting is all about enjoyment. I can tell y'all have found that Classic SxS's is a very unique way to hunt and a lot of fun. When I just clean my old Doubles I always wonder about their history, how most were a tool to provide food. Always enjoy your post's and pic' and maybe one day I may take the same path and just use the "old doubles".
I picked up a nice Browning BSS select trigger model in 20 gauge a few years back for a song. Albeit a $650 tune, but an excellent deal. Had it refinished and it looks pretty good.
This thread is encouraging me to whack a few crows with it.
When crows are pouring in -not singles and doubles-your double is not going to deliver the numbers.....you'll get a lot depending upon your resource but you'll be down by half meaning you could have gotten one extra crow based on the circumstances....if you don't care or you got slow shooting anyways this is no big deal. The double will suffice but in most areas of the country where the shooting can be hot your double is a lesson in frustration....you'll burn out and drop like a rock in a well in your blind from exhaustion...
Top Cat wrote: (on Feb 15th in the thread Arkansas Crows) last October late I had quite a batch to shoot at I missed so much the skies above that field looks like the tops of salt and pepper shakers!
Top Cat, I want to thank you for proving my point I made in an early post in this thread;
"I have seen way too many users of automatics in the field used by people who rely on the spray and pray method of wing shooting and they don't keep up in numbers with an accomplished wing shooter using a double."
-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Sunday 6th of March 2016 12:39:05 PM
As far as the durability of old classic doubleguns, here is a posting in the Parker Gun Collectors forums under "Other Fine Doubles"
This is the experience of a friend of mine had hunting doves with an LC Smith 20 he restored and restocked some years back. They killed 5500+ doves between them. I've related this story many times since he first told it to me.
"I am in possession of one, a 20 ga. live pigeon gun with both barrels bored modified. I bought it in the early 60's while at university, so you know it was cheap. It is engraved, ideal grade, with the light weight action. I used it in Argentina on doves to great effect. Five of us went down on package deal for a four day shoot. We took nine guns, 3 Brownings, 2 Berettas, 3 Rem 1100s and my LC. The only one that did not require some sort of maintenance was the LC. All 3 1100s failed, but robbing parts from the others we got one back on line, the Berettas failed completely with broken parts and the Brownings would not cycle and were used as single shots despite twice daily cleanings. We shot 14,125 rounds, but the LC, built in 1905, still ejected without any cleaning other than the bores."
As far as the durability of old classic doubleguns, here is a posting in the Parker Gun Collectors forums under "Other Fine Doubles"
This is the experience of a friend of mine had hunting doves with an LC Smith 20 he restored and restocked some years back. They killed 5500+ doves between them. I've related this story many times since he first told it to me.
"I am in possession of one, a 20 ga. live pigeon gun with both barrels bored modified. I bought it in the early 60's while at university, so you know it was cheap. It is engraved, ideal grade, with the light weight action. I used it in Argentina on doves to great effect. Five of us went down on package deal for a four day shoot. We took nine guns, 3 Brownings, 2 Berettas, 3 Rem 1100s and my LC. The only one that did not require some sort of maintenance was the LC. All 3 1100s failed, but robbing parts from the others we got one back on line, the Berettas failed completely with broken parts and the Brownings would not cycle and were used as single shots despite twice daily cleanings. We shot 14,125 rounds, but the LC, built in 1905, still ejected without any cleaning other than the bores."
This conversation, despite its descents, has got me thinking about taking my old (inherited) 1915 Immanuel Meffert 16 double out next time. It hasn't been out for a couple of years.
Were these firearms (all of them) there personnel firearms or were they rented out by the outfitter?
The reason I ask is because they really rack you if you take more than two firearms to South America.
When I used to hunt doves down there I limited myself to 1,000 rounds a day because my pockets were not as deep as others who shot more than twice that amount of ammo at doves a day. My main focus was on the ducks and geese.
Dick my partner shot 2,000 to 2,500 rounds a day on doves, his ammo bill was more than the land cost of the trip! He only used a Beretta model 390 and 391, both semi autos.
Your hammer gun reminds me a little of a guy who was shooting doves with an old Purdy hammer gun (in Argentina) that was an old pigeon gun. It had 32 inch barrels on it, I remember his name was Gary and he lived in Colorado.
The ONLY good "double" is when a decent pump or semi-auto drops one crow after another or even at the same time! (Ask BOBA. about that). Imagine an antique slow and slower (sxs) old rusted blue less shot gun doing that? Look at that guy in Tennessee-Bruce Scott? His mouth open with exhaustion; his slow and slower old ancient shot gun unable to drop any crows (note that too by the way) while the Tennessee old boy was dropping every crow he shot at-how much more proof do you need?
__________________
Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
Yup, your right, it was one of NH's posts. Question, is that your model 12 and side by side with the dog eared hammers on it? If it is, that is what reminded me of the fella in Argentina shooting an old pigeon gun (Purdy from the 1880's) with dog eared hammers.
Were these firearms (all of them) there personnel firearms or were they rented out by the outfitter?
The reason I ask is because they really rack you if you take more than two firearms to South America.
When I used to hunt doves down there I limited myself to 1,000 rounds a day because my pockets were not as deep as others who shot more than twice that amount of ammo at doves a day. My main focus was on the ducks and geese.
Dick my partner shot 2,000 to 2,500 rounds a day on doves, his ammo bill was more than the land cost of the trip! He only used a Beretta model 390 and 391, both semi autos.
Bob I just copied and pasted what had been posted to the Parker site under the heading "testament to an LC Smith". When the author said they took 9 guns I assumed they took their own guns. I just thought it was interesting story and interesting that 110 year shotgun held up as it did. Guns like so many things back in the day were built to last where today they are built to be used and disposed of when they break.
This is a topic we both could talk about for quite some time.
Back in the 1980's you had to pay a lot more to bring more than two shotguns in to Argentina but if you had deep pockets it did not matter. There was this one gent who could easily afford a better (more durable) shotgun but he loved model 1100's by Remington. The Remington rep told me many years ago that the model 1100 was good for the first 10,000 rounds put through it and after that you were going to have some minor problems. The reason they designed that shotgun like that is because the average hunter only shoots roughly two boxes of shotgun shells a season on live game birds. This would be more than enough for the gun to last a lifetime under those conditions.
Now back to Argentina, the guy would bring 8 model 1100's to Argentina for the dove shooting down there. The reason was because he needed that many, when one would break down he would grab another one! In those days they were not as strict at customs so this guy used to just give all his guns away to the bird boys so he did not have to haul all of them through customs on the way home.
Any model shotgun will last even with plenty of abuse providing you keep it up as far as maintenance is concerned. I loved the model 12 Winchesters and still do but the reason I went to the Remington 870 was because it was much less costly to maintain. Back in the early 1980's the gunsmith would charge $ 75.00 for parts and labor for a new chamber ring. In those days seventy five bucks was a fair amount of money for me just for maintenance.
In my opinion any decent side by side or over & under with out much maintenance will give you less problems than a pump or auto simply because there are far less moving parts.
Here is a photo from a Mexican white wing dove hunt. You shot ducks in the morning and doves in the afternoon.
Yup, your right, it was one of NH's posts. Question, is that your model 12 and side by side with the dog eared hammers on it? If it is, that is what reminded me of the fella in Argentina shooting an old pigeon gun (Purdy from the 1880's) with dog eared hammers.
I posted on this two years ago when I last used it (and a first for crows). Got one with the R barrel and missed its partner with the L; then did a "NY Reload" by picking up the Model 12 to get the second bandit, hence the photo with both of them and three cases.
It's an Immanuel Meffert, made in 1915 (not Damascus barrels, but "Fluss Stahl"). The Meffert firm did not survive WWII, as it was in Suhl, a city that became part of the Eastern Zone (remember the "Iron Curtain," kids?). And because the Soviets took anything back to Mother Russia that was usable and wasnt' burned down, as "reparations," they cleaned out the place and then burnt it down, including all of the company's records. So, there's very little known about the company's firearms' individual histories. Too bad.
It came back from WWII as a "souvenir," in a great uncle's duffelbag. I lucked out and inherited it. Beautiful piece with fine engraving of hunting scenes. Light, almost delicate, with long barrels.
The guys at the big city gun ship where I do business took a couple of small dents out of the L barrel, replaced the firing pin return springs and generally checked it out. They told me the chambers are a little bit shorter than US, so they recommended the Fiocchi shells which are a bit shorter. You can buy the shorter European-type shells via the Internet, the but it's spensive."
I need to take it out again, as it's reached 101 years old, don't you think?
Lord Rippon (whom I was in a prior life) was an English Aristocrat who died in 1927 in Scotland while hunting driven grouse. He had around a dozen leather bound diaries of his shooting exploits from the 1880's to the 1920's. He shot 240,000 driven pheasants and 134,000 odd partridge during his reign of terror on flying game birds! He used three Purdy side by sides with dog eared hammers. All were cylinder bore, and he would practice with his loaders so that he always had a loaded firearm in his hands when the birds were being driven!
Lord Rippon also loved to play billiards as well as wing shooting.
Lord Rippon (whom I was in a prior life) was an English Aristocrat who died in 1927 in Scotland while hunting driven grouse. He had around a dozen leather bound diaries of his shooting exploits from the 1880's to the 1920's. He shot 240,000 driven pheasants and 134,000 odd partridge during his reign of terror on flying game birds! He used three Purdy side by sides with dog eared hammers. All were cylinder bore, and he would practice with his loaders so that he always had a loaded firearm in his hands when the birds were being driven!
Lord Rippon also loved to play billiards as well as wing shooting.
...im sure Lord Rippon was stone deaf as well
Ted
__________________
Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid. John Wayne
My dad's friend used to think that I was Lord Rippon in a prior life because of my zeal for hunting crows.
Lord Rippon would go to many of the driven shoots throughout Europe during the latter part of the 19th century. He was born at the right time to enjoy such a grand lifestyle. His edge was that he did not have to scout and acquire permission he just arrived to shoot the birds in grand style because he was an aristocrat that loved wing shooting.
Let's see now; a double trouble to get one male mallard; a double trouble apiece to get two black ducks and someone with a good semi or pump let you take credit in a dramatic photo for a buncha' crows...okay...i get the pictures all right....
__________________
Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
Let's see now; a double trouble to get one male mallard; a double trouble apiece to get two black ducks and someone with a good semi or pump let you take credit in a dramatic photo for a buncha' crows...okay...i get the pictures all right....
What??? you shouldn't drink before you post! try it again in a few hours.
As I see it reviewing the ducks you shot(?) with your double troubles; I think you should indeed call yourself a "professor' all right; but renamed Professor ludwig Von Drake!
__________________
Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
("Other Fine Doubles")
