Crow Busters Forum

Decoying skeet or improved in spring and summer
run and gun modified in winter and fall cause the birds tend to fly higher

If your calling them in close, let's say within 40 yards, imp cyl or light mod and 7.5 or 8's going 1200-1300 fps will knock em out of the sky. If they are 45-55 yards mod with the same load will still bring down easily! As I said in other post unless you are an excellent  shot full choke is too tight. But if you practice with a more open choke you'll hit more and miss less,and that boosts confidence in your ability. then you'll kill more birds

I am a fan of tight chokes because I have found that I am quite comfortable shooting crows close with a full choke but I really enjoy reaching out and touching those occasional high gliders that won't commit, or a second bird I shoot at that are leaving the area at high speed after the first shot. This year I have been shooting them with an 1893 Parker "short 10" (2 7/8") with a 1 1/4 of #6. The big bore can really reach out there and is much more effective than a 12ga with the same weight/payload of shot.

My theory is the close birds I occasionally miss with the tight choke are made up by the tall ones I knock down. My zone of effective fire around my blind is larger with the tighter choke.  I live in area where crows are not as plentiful as some of the places other people here hunt so I prefer a gun capable of longer range kills which maximizes my chances.

I have shot the big ten with it's 32" F/F barrels at skeet a few times and have averaged about 20 out of 25 with it. It's no skeet gun but I believe that average reinforces I can handle the close birds with a heavy gun and tight choke.


-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 30th of August 2010 12:51:38 PM

How do you guys go about testing loads? What pellet count and distance are you looking at when patterning?

Levi
put them on paper at least 30 in in diamiter at given yards
10-20-30-40 whatever range you want
do all the chokes at the ranges you normaly shoot
then go by density of patteren not so much by where you aim but over all
you can adjust poi later record on the paper what gun choke shell ect even temp.
This will outline what range for what choke for your load and gun. A change in brands of ammo could mean different poi
in other words patteren it like a turkey gun only with diff chokes

Bob,

   For far too long there has been a myth that you need hi-brass loads of 4,5or6shot and a full choke to kill these tough birds. I used an 1100 with 30in full choke for years with hi-brass 5's and once in while a crow ran into some of the shot, but TBC now is 6-8 times better with imp or mod and nitros in 7.5 or 8's. They will cost less and kill more birds, I guess everyone has to try it to believe it.  When a shot is fired and the bird (shutters or moves eratically) the tendecy is to believe it was hit and  didn't fall, but the truth is you missed and the birds is in escape mode instantly. By all means if full choke works, use it. Before long if someone uses a more open choke their TBC will go up!!

-- Edited by watch em fall on Tuesday 31st of August 2010 01:37:56 AM

Hi Chuck,

You are quite welcome.

Once a fella has some experience under his belt the more he realizes how important focus is in regard to a high shooting average. You're timing and reflexes will take care of the rest, some shots you have to hubba hubba to get the shot off or you won't get a shot at all. Others you have more time on, this is where focus comes into play, if you have a lot of time to take the shot you can just as easily blow it if you figure "ah, this is an easy one" you tend to slack off if you are not focused! So my motto is this "bear down on the easy shots as well"

Bob A.

Not that I don't think bearing down is good it seams to be for me that the more time I have to think and aim for a shot with a shot gun the more I miss than if I just pull up and pull.
Could anyone explain why this is true?

Justin (1983)

In one of my past posts I mentioned how important focus was in regard to good shotgunning.

The more time a fella has to think about the shot the more time it gives his mind to wander, even for a moment, and thats all it takes to blow the shot! That is what is going on in you're case on shots where you have to much time to think about it. Here is what will help you in these types of situations, as the bird approaches keep you're shotgun at the ready without shouldering it. The time to shoulder you're shotgun is where you want to kill the bird. Just remain focused and when that bird gets into position where it feels right for you, at that precise instant you "mount you're shotgun and snap off the shot" or to use you're words "just pull up and pull" When you use this method you don't give you're brain time to think about it, you just let you're natural shooting instincts kick in and "they won't let you down"

Bob A.

JD,
I'm with Bob's answer to you about taking time to think. I don't do formal skeet/trap/sporting clays but me and my son go out about once or twice a month and throw some clay targets. Like you, if I have time to think, or time to set up the shot and try to do some leading ... I miss. Usually it's my second shot that connects. When I'm hunting ducks, geese, crows or pheasant, it's the surprise shots that I connect with. Last year a friend and I were duck hunting and two mallards were into a landing glide into the decoys and I said dead ducks.  They are still flying and living today I think. Later that day two birds screamed in from the left, I swung my body right, and fired twice and both dropped. It was a forty yard shot. I tried to shoot clays with the gun up and shouldered, no good. I now start with a low gun, lock onto the clay, up the gun and shoot....and not always but ususally hit it. I'm not a fantastic shot, will never be, but for me this so called "instinctive" is working better than all the other methods of shooting I have tried (sustained lead, pull away lead, swing through lead).

Now, as for choke. I use mod all the time. Mod with steel for duck/goose. Mod with lead for crow/pheasant.

As a wise man once said , "fear the man that uses only one gun, cause he's real good with it" I also once knew a man who used a 30-06 for rabbit hunting. He got head shots every time, even on running rabbits.

I've babbled enough.

JD:

The TCP holds a theory regarding missing a shot where the shooter has all the time in the world and that is, you invite the opportunity to "overthink" the shot.  "He seems to be traveling faster than I thought - I'll crank a little more lead on him" or "He seems a little edgy - I better wait until his flight path settles down and straightens out!"

The next time you get the opportunity to shoot some sporting clays, say "Pull!" only when your tube is in the port arms position.  You'll probably connect more often and have more fun!

When I miss on a easy shot,I tell my buddy that it was a "warning shot".

Hello Hizz,

If the crows are coming one or two at a time I like a tight choke as well, do I need it, not really, I just like to smoke em. If they are coming in more than one or two at a time I will go to a more open choke so I don't have to be so precise when I have to hurry inorder to get triples and sometimes quadruples.

My two 12 gauge Berettas both like 7 1/2's or 8's and perform quite well at 50 yards plus. I would say that at least 85 to 90% of my shooting is within 20 to 40 yards.

Bob A.

Justin,

When you said "if I mount the gun and have to much time to settle in I end up blowing the shot" Don't mount the gun until you are ready to shoot. This is why you are missing the birds, unless you are very focused on keeping you're head down on the comb and keeping that damn muzzle moving "after the shot" you are going to blow it because you are "riding the birds to much" by that I mean you are taking to much time tracking them before you get the shot off.

The reason a lot of guys kill birds with the second shot instead of the first shot is because after they miss they are not "riding the birds" they are chasing after them and that muzzle is moving trying to catch up with the bird, this is where there natural instincts kick in! One other reason can be that the choke might have been to tight for the shooter and after the miss the bird has put another added 10 to 15 yards between them. This has given the pattern time to open up some more and now we have another dead crow!

So getting back to you Justin, on soft shots (easy) keep you're shotgun at the ready in a "port arms position" and for Gods sake don't mount you're gun until the precise instant you want to kill the bird. This will cause you to chase after it and you will do much better, killing them with the first shot. You will find in time that you will be getting the shot off a fraction of a second after that butt hits you're shoulder. I would highly recomend you practice mounting you're shotgun at least 30 times per session. It's very easy to do at home and do it enough to where it becomes second nature to you. A very good drill is to mount you're gun from a port arms position with "both eyes closed" when you open them "after you're shotgun is mounted to you're shoulder" your dominant eye should be looking straight down the middle of the rib, not off to one side or the other. Keep practicing because this will pay off on live birds or clay birds as well. In effect you are building what pool players call muscle memory, you keep doing the drill until you can do it without even thinking about it.

Bob A.

A lot of modified guns pattern better with the larger shot sizes as well...I'm talking 4, 5 and 6 lead shot. Full choked guns tend to have a dense centre and less pellets on the outer area at normal range whereas modified will have a much more even distribution of pellets.

Ted

Hey, I've done that. When I was learning how to shoot at skeet. I just thought it was going to be simple, well lets just say some of the guys kind of gave me some pointers, after they stopped laughing. The one main thing they did was to take my ammo away from me , then told me to shot the skeet by saying bang every time a skeet was thrown. The first few or more than I want to mention , I stopped on the follow through. After I got what they were talking about and started my follow through, less and less skeet hit the ground. This was a huge lesson in wing shooting for me.

He's right, it sounds crazy, but its worth a shot.

Hi Chip,

There is a lot of wisdom in you're last post.

Another thing is the dram equivelent, 2 3/4 dram loads are fine for shooting on a regulation skeet field, but are louzy for hunting crows! The 3 dram or if you choose to the 3 1/4 dram loads work quite well on crows.

I think that some fellas just think it's cool when they are starting out to say that they use a full choke. A full choke is fine if the shooting is 40 yards and beyond, you have to be very skilled and confident in you're ability to hit birds in close with a full choke gun. You gave some very good advise to the guys just getting started within the past several years about shooting a more open choke like improved cylender until they can handle the tighter chokes.

One other thing that can help a young shooter is to have an old pro stand in back of them while they are shooting, the old pro knows what to look for and can speed up the learning curve quite a bit. It's the little things that add up to a big difference in the shooting sports.

Bob A.

Hi Levi,

Yes the Remington Nitros are a 3 1/4 dram load.

Does 150 feet matter? This is only my opinion, if you are shooting say Gun Club loads going 1200 fps as opposed to another load going 1050 fps then yes it would make a difference. On the other hand if you're shooting a load that goes 1350 fps compared to 1200 fps then there would be some difference but most guys couldn't tell the difference if they had someone else loading the gun for them!

1200 fps is a damn good velocity because you have plenty of speed, plus it patterns better than a lot of higher velocitys for shotgun ammo.

I suppose a guy could get geared for any velocity but 1200 fps is a proven winner over the past 60 odd years.

Case in point, my crow hunting buddie Dick was hunting tigers in India many years ago and after he got his tiger he did some upland bird hunting. He had to borrow a shotgun and ammo since all he had was a rifle with him. So Dick Kilbane goes out and after he missed the first half dozen birds in a row he knew something was not right. He asked the owner of the operation if he knew the velocity of the ammo he was shooting? The owner said 850 fps now that is sub sonic and sure takes some getting used too. So on the broadside shots Dick kept opening up the lead until he got geared to the velocity. He said a crossing shot at 25 to 30 yards took almost twice the lead of an American load going 1200 fps. So there you have it, a guy can adapt to anything but it would behoove any shotgunner to try and stay with the same velocity ammo give or take 35 to 50 fps. Chip in my opinion gave some very good advice when he said "stick with the same fps for several years"

Bob A.

I got a mid bead doesn't that count as a rear site. NH
I've thought bout a ghost ring any one tried one?


-- Edited by jd1983 on Friday 3rd of September 2010 12:51:26 AM

jd1983 wrote:

---

Not to get off topic but if you are going to roll your own turkey loads for long range keep it under 1200-1250 fps to get the best patteren. That has been told to me by more than a few shotgun handloaders.

---

http://oldgobbler.com/TheForum/index.php  <- This sites good for turkey stuff.  There's a handloading section, too.

I usually shoot ammo in the 1200 fps range, but I've shot others and haven't noticed much difference.  It might have been faster, though.

I appreciate the insight, Bob and Chip, I appreciate your insight.


 



-- Edited by LeviSS on Friday 3rd of September 2010 02:41:33 AM

I agree with Bob A on the midbead, A shotgun is to be pointed and never aimed, its simply an extension of yours arms. My son just turned 15 and has been an avid shooter since he was 8 almost nine maybe, his ninth birthday he got his Remington1100  LT 20 gage. In my opinion it is the absolute best training gun for a youth. He turned 15 in July and has bought on his own 2 870 super mags. He came home the other day with a couple boxes of game loads that a buddy gave him 1190 FPS. Now I know that ten feet per second is not noticable. But I traded him gun clubs 1200 FPS for them. Fellas he is just not ready!!! He is a decent shooter too. I am just old school I guess maybe when he is 20 LOL!!!! 

Hi boys,

We generally use IC chokes, both in our Metro-barreled pumps and our conventional shotguns - T-Matt's and my Maxus's as well as Lone Star Phil's 1897 tube choked by Angleport.

Over the weekend I took 9 crows with 10 shots with my Maxus and its Angleport extended IC choke.  Shot all of these crows over a FoxPro Fury, using the JS Owl & Crow Fight and Death Cry of a Crow.  Those are excellent sounds and it is amazing the volume the Fury puts out using 8 AA batteries.

Regards,