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Alright, I think it's clear what we all need to do. Stop typing on here, go to gunbroker, and start searching for late 1800's, 10 guage, full-choked double guns. Then, if you can afford to buy it, can afford to shoot it, or can find ammo at all, you'll have the best crow-shooting gun made in the last 130 years...possibly ever. :)

-- Edited by LeviSS on Saturday 11th of September 2010 05:46:24 PM

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NH,

When I mentioned that you're 10 gauge was impractical in a past post I was referring to the cost of the ammo as compared to 12 gauge ammo. Paying $ 7.00 to $ 8.00 per box for quality 12 gauge ammo is still better than what you would pay for 10 gauge ammo. If you shoot thousands of rounds a year with a shotgun then a buck or more difference per box can add up to hundreds of dollars worth of difference by the end of the year! Now for a guy who does not shoot much the cost has no bearing.

Bob A.

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LeviSS wrote:

Alright, I think it's clear what we all need to do. Stop typing on here, go to gunbroker, and start searching for late 1800's, 10 guage, full-choked double guns. Then, if you can afford to buy it, can afford to shoot it, or can find ammo at all, you'll have the best crow-shooting gun made in the last 130 years...possibly ever. :)

-- Edited by LeviSS on Saturday 11th of September 2010 05:46:24 PM



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Bob wrote:

NH,

When I mentioned that you're 10 gauge was impractical in a past post I was referring to the cost of the ammo as compared to 12 gauge ammo. Paying $ 7.00 to $ 8.00 per box for quality 12 gauge ammo is still better than what you would pay for 10 gauge ammo. If you shoot thousands of rounds a year with a shotgun then a buck or more difference per box can add up to hundreds of dollars worth of difference by the end of the year! Now for a guy who does not shoot much the cost has no bearing.

Bob A.




Bob as I stated before my 10ga reloads are $9.00 a box but they do not compare to the performance of AA's or STS, they compare to Super-X and the like.  I shoot about 800-1000 shells a year at crows.  That's 40 boxes, and that would mean $40 to $80 a year more than factory trap loads, ie no bearing.

If a fella is looking to save money he better be reloading for his 12ga.  Last time I checked I could reload AA's and STS with OEM components and magnum shot for less than $5 a box.



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NH,

On average I shoot between 275 to 290 boxes or more on crows each season. All factory stuff. 7 1/2's & 8's is all I shoot, 3 dram trap load, 1 1/8th ounce loads.

Bob A.

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NH:100's of rounds of practice at flying clay birds with a gun that shoots 4" low and  left at 15 yards is more productive than just a very few minutes on a patterning board to diagnosis that problem?

 I would think knowing ( confidence ) your gun was "on" would make the practice far more beneficial and effective. I do not see "practice" and "patterning" as mutually exclusive. I see them as mutually beneficial.. for flying OR sitting targets!smile

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Well said Skipteamwork.gif



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Skip wrote:

NH:100's of rounds of practice at flying clay birds with a gun that shoots 4" low and  left at 15 yards is more productive than just a very few minutes on a patterning board to diagnosis that problem?

 I would think knowing ( confidence ) your gun was "on" would make the practice far more beneficial and effective. I do not see "practice" and "patterning" as mutually exclusive. I see them as mutually beneficial.. for flying OR sitting targets!smile



Every single Parker built was regulated for point of aim at 40 yards (except 410's at 25 yards) and patterned at the factory until each gun produced the desired pattern % for the amount of choke.  Customers could even request them to pattern with a specific shot size as well.  When I see Parker Bros. on a shotgun I have confidence, patterning simply reinforces it, shooting it well that is just pure joy. smile

 



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HN: All absolutey true about Parkers, but as my son said to me many years ago when using my Belgium made Browning O/U 20 gauge at doves that were pouring over his position.."Dad, this thing does not have enough holes in it". And he was right!

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Skip wrote:

HN: All absolutey true about Parkers, but as my son said to me many years ago when using my Belgium made Browning O/U 20 gauge at doves that were pouring over his position.."Dad, this thing does not have enough holes in it". And he was right!



Well I would have probably said the same thing in my youth.  I guess I have come to a point where I appreciate something more than having a 3rd shot (guns must be plugged for crows in NH).   To me the old double guns add an immeasurable joy beyond the few more crows I might shoot with a repeater.

 



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NH: If one can only shoot 3 times at a crow, like your state, a double barrel would not be all that different and using one of the fine doubles..would be a strong consideration. But, I suspect if you lived here.. or in a state that allowed 5 shots, you might reconsider. Reloading 2 or 3 shells...all the time during an onslaught, gets old... but having 5 gets addictive. Been there done that!! smile

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Skip,

I might be wrong, but I think NH cares more about the good feeling he gets using these fine old side by sides than the numbers of crows he gets on any given day afield.

You want to remember that you and I are a pair of old butchers who measure success by the amount of crows we get each day, not everyone is like that.

Bob A.

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Skip wrote:

Wingmaster: Correct. One cannot over emphasize the importance of patterning your gun/choke/ammo choice. All subsequent decisions on how to improve your shooting  stem from what you find punching holes on the patterning board.

skip



I am actually going to pattern my gun this year.  I have never patterned any gun I have owned.

I think it is import and this might help me get more crows :)

John

 



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Bob: You could be absolutely correct... and if so.. more power to NH... our differences, however slight they may be, are what makes this discussion so beneficial.  I certainly can relate to enjoying the moment. In fact, admire that.

Two old butchers...   well said.smile

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Bob and Skip, our differences are slight. I do measure crow hunting success by a TBC, both daily and annually. I simply choose to use a classic double, several of them. Those are good days when my partner and I are breaking our guns, loading them and firing as fast as we close them. Those moments are few and far between in NH so the double gun is less of a handicap. This year I have had a chance to compare the shot for shot performance of a standard 10 bore against a standard 12. The difference is night and day and I am having great fun with it. I simply enjoy guns that were built in different time, they represent a period in this country's history that will not be repeated. They are also hand fitted and built with greater care than guns built after WWII. Some are investments, some are shooters, all them have a history and are shotgunning/hunting time travelers. Like the Harley Davidson commercial, if I have to explain you won't understand smile

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Hi NH and boys,

A very interesting topic and string.  Years ago my hunting buddy one upped me and bought a Browning Gold 10.  The "gadget man" couldn't stand it so I quickly matched him buying my own Browning Gold 10.  As Bob A. and you noted, they were a lot of fun for lower volume shoots.  The biggest problem, as you stated, was carrying shells.  I ruined a nice NatGear shooting vest over stuffing it with those big 3.5 inch shells. (they replaced it for me/point to NatGear for excellent customer service).

Well one day we experienced the "black tornado" where crows started coming in and circling our owl & crow dek spread oblivious to our presence.  We both ran out of shells in our vests and on our small ATV's. 

Since then we carry our 12's or 20's, sometimes for fun a .410.  For anticipated high volume shoots, we pack our Metro-barrel equipped 12's with cases of Featherlite factories or clones close at hand.   Running out of ammo when there is daylight and crows, as Skip says, is verboten!

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Verboten, you mean down right sickning!

I 've run out twice over the years, once on December 5th 1992 in Kansas. I had 424 crows down by 10:30 a.m. and used 558 20 gauge hulls using # 9 shot. Overcast day, wind - east at 5 mph 24 degrees out that day. 7:40 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. I made a note in my journal that this was the fourth 400 bird shoot I ever had up until that point in time.

The next blunder was on December 1st 1979 where I shot 410 crows from 7:10 a.m. to 12:10 p.m. and there I sat, no more ammo and the crows are still flying!! I used 632 20 gauge hulls # 8 shot. Wind - NW at 3-5 mph 20 degrees out. I used my model 12 Winchester on that shoot.

This is why I like keeping records, there is no way a man can remember all those shoots.

Bob A.

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Hi Bobby,
              I've been missing a few days for I was in maine bear hunting,no internet where I was and now I'm just catching up on topics! I like your statement Of "SUCCESS" FOR ITS EXACTLEY HOW I MEASURE IT ALSO!! RIGHT ON!!biggrinbiggrin

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Running out of shell has to one of the most sinking feelings for a wingshooter. Have run out of ammo more times than I care to mentionno. These days I always have four spare boxes of ammo back at the truck. One never knows when the planets will line up for one of those "tear the flaps off the shotshell boxes" once in a lifetime shoots.biggrin

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Lot of good they do you in the truck I drag along enough ammo for 2 people when I set up for a feeding set up. I would rather drag out a extra 100 and sweat than to whish I had them

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Awsome reading boys and very sound wisdom on both sidesyawn I will have to lean a little on nhcrowshooter side though. I know you get tired of me preaching the jellyhead theory, but I stand firm on it. I shot some magnum 5's last year on a flyway shoot at some birds in the ozone layerbiggrin poofed em. I cant imagine anyone shooting a 10 at crows (expense alone) but what nh sais makes a ton of sense. As far as terrain goes YES it makes a difference, and maybe for the older eyes. I shot doves this weekend and was having problems on flat ground with no trees for miles. The guy with me knows I'm a shooter and told me to take my sun glasses off. I took em off and started smashing embiggrin I can't explain what difference it made but it did. My boy had the same problem. Here in the hills though it has never effected me. Wierd I know but I think it created an opticle elusion of some kind in reference to distance. As far as choke sizes go I think it all boils down to shooting expierence. 15 yards is no different to me than 65 useing a 670 constrction, but I've been shooting for 43 years. I still wont allow my 15 year old to shoot anything tighter than a mod and he is very accomplished for his age. There was a guy leaving the field Sunday and my son wanted his spot. My son said are you done for the day? He said yep. Dyl said it was nice meeting you and the old boy yelled back at Dyl and said thank you son it was a joy watching you shoot, you are impressive. I could see my sons teeth shining from my hide 50 yards awaybiggrin  Daddy likes!!!! 

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chip wrote:

 I cant imagine anyone shooting a 10 at crows (expense alone) but what nh sais makes a ton of sense. As far as terrain goes YES it makes a difference, and maybe for the older eyes.


I still think there may be some confusion as to what I am shooting.  On the left is a 2 3/4" 12ga, in the middle a 2 7/8" 10ga or "standard" 10ga, on the right a 3.5" 10ga magnum.

My standard 10 is loaded with 1 1/4 ounce of #6.  The advantage is the larger bore of the 10ga and lower chamber pressures which combined produce shorter shot strings and tighter patterns than 12ga.  Cost of my reloads including hulls is about $9 a box of 25.  Recoil in a 10 pound gun is negligible.  Loading the short ten is more time consuming as I have to cut down 3.5" hulls to 2 7/8",  I also have to place a filler wad in the shotcup to get the column the right height for crimping.  Other than that it loads the same.

100_0773.jpg 



-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Tuesday 14th of September 2010 06:20:38 PM

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