Crow Busters Forum

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Absolutely Unbelievable - Hunter Harrassment

8fishermen · Guru

Too bad you weren't shooting 7 1/2's... you could have had a little fun with him. 6's are no good in that situation, they leave a mark. biggrin

Just because you are not a hunter does not give you the right to be a jerk. The shame is he thinks he was doing a good thing sticking up for the crows. confuse

Hopefully the wardens will do something.

Troy Seal · Senior Member

Yeah thats complete bull crap. My goose hunting buddy had a simular thing happen to him on the lake a few years ago. He was hunting 364 yards (rangefinder) from a guys house. Law says we have to be 100 yards from a house if we are on TVA property or have permition from the land owner. This guy starts yellin and being an a$$ hole. Then puts his boat in and does doughnuts around his decoys. He calls the police and the game warden. When they go to court the judge (who is a corrupt bastard) asks my friend if the guy was fishing and he says no, then he asks did he have a rod in his hand and he told him yes but he could hold a fishing rod in his den and that didnt mean he was fishing and he almost put him in jail for contempt. This judge if you want to call him that didnt do a thing to the a$$ hole, and he walked. This world is getting more stupid by the day!

SHANEDOG · Guru

Believe it or not here in Mass. we have a hunter harrassment law,mucho trouble if you harrass hunters.

watch em fall · Senior Member

I woulda stomped that guy out like a cigarette!! biggrin

-- Edited by watch em fall on Sunday 20th of March 2011 11:10:00 PM

Big A · Veteran Member

Wow, how bogus. at least your stuff didnt get busted up to bad. Look like a great hunt besides the drama. I once had a guy (sneak) across a wide open field and blast one of my crow dekes out of a tree befor i could stop him. It was so bizarre to watch, i kept waiting for him to figure it out, that it was a fake. But noooooo messed up that decoy!

fowlplay · Member

You did the right thing by calling in the law and not putting a thumping on the guy. Pursue it to the end. This guy is an idiot and needs to face the music. It never ceases to amaze me how many idiots exist out there. If things operate out there as they do here in Michigan, the F&G guys will issue a report to the local prosecutor and he/she will decide if and what charges will be issued. Alot of you guys carry cameras out on the hunt, plus most cellphones have video capabilities. If you ever have an experience like this, put it on film. Most of the time these idiots will plead guilty instead of risking a jury watching a video of them being a total a-hole.

Keep us posted nhcrowshooter

Bob · Guru

NH,

Very unfortunate, I feel bad that that had to happen to you and you're friend. You showed great restraint NH, I'm afraid I would have clocked the guy as soon as the speaker hit the ground.

Don't they have any hunter harrassment laws in NH ?

Bob A.

8fishermen · Guru

Bob wrote:

NH,

Very unfortunate, I feel bad that that had to happen to you and you're friend. You showed great restraint NH, I'm afraid I would have clocked the guy as soon as the speaker hit the ground.

Don't they have any hunter harrassment laws in NH ?

Bob A.

Bob,

You are the second person to mention "hunter harassment laws". I have never heard of such a law. I live in Mississippi. Here if you harass a hunter, the law probably is not going to be able to help you if you know what I mean. biggrin

Bob · Guru

Hi Greg,

They have a hunter harrassment law here in Kansas.

Bob A.

Bob · Guru

Greg,

If you contact the NRA they will give you a list of all the states that have this law to protect hunters from the bunny hugers!

Bob A.

8fishermen · Guru

Bob wrote:

Greg,

If you contact the NRA they will give you a list of all the states that have this law to protect hunters from the bunny hugers!

Bob A.

Down here there are laws to protect the "bunny hugers" as they are nearly extinct biggrin biggrin

Troy Seal · Senior Member

We have hunter harrassment laws in Tn also, but getting a dirty judge to throw the book at them isn't gonna happen without proof!

NHCrow · Veteran Member

please keep us updated. I hope this guy gets the book thrown at him.

DirtyDave · Veteran Member

We have HH laws in Ca too, but I woulda put a hurtin on the guy before it got to that

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Interestingly enough NH does have a hunter harrassment law. The two Fish & Game officers told us it was written poorly and is almost unenforceable. The law contains language that the harrassment must take place in a designated hunting area, which I would assume is a WMA.

Is it jsut me or does it seem like the laws protect or make it hard to cite the person doing something wrong?

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:55:13 AM

Mainehunt · Guru

I'm glad you didn't beat the crap out of the guy, if you had, that is all the public would have remembered.

Here is a link to the harassment laws website and a quote from there;

Hunter Harassment laws exist for all 50 states. Below you will find an impartial list. More states will be added soon.

http://www.huntsab.org/hunter_harassment_laws.htm

Kev
<><

-- Edited by Mainehunt on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:58:32 AM

Splash One · Senior Member

I would have leveled my gun at him and told him to stop...

MH thanks for the link.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Splash One wrote:

I would have leveled my gun at him and told him to stop...

MH thanks for the link.

That sounds good Splash but NH has pretty strict laws about the use of deadly force, brandishing a firearm etc. Had I done that I am pretty sure I would have been in a heap of trouble. I would have to have been under life threatening physical attack with no ability to retreat per our laws in order to introduce deadly force.

SHANEDOG · Guru

Your right on there NH,if you had done that the police would be the proud owners of all of you firearms no questions asked right now. I had a couple of quad riders watch me set up,I was waiting till close to dark to start calling,one of them drove up and on purpose rode over my FoxPro 416 B caller and my decoy,I was so mad that I could not sleep,that night,but I did not even think of raising my gun,to much to lose,plus I own a buisness. I am sorry that I did not get his tag number tough,I would have put my lawyer on his a$$,no matter what it cost!!@!

Bob · Guru

Splash,

You could have practiced the horizontal butt stroke on that fella, would have been a KO for sure. That took great restraint on NH's part "not to lock horns with that idiot"

My friend Dick was hunting crows in the afternoon years ago and the e-caller was playing so he never heard this guy slip up on him, when Dick turned his head he had a 357 in his face with the hammer at full ****! That will give ya a new experience! The guy who gave him permission to hunt thought his whole life that he owned this very small parcil of land, but he didn't, the neighbor did, and so there was a confrontation as a result. Brrr, I don't even like to think about that.

Bob A.

Mike27 · Senior Member

Years back, hunting geese on a reservoir, two of us were sitting in a blind. Right when the geese starting coming in, a crazy old witch and her dog snuck up and started yelling at us. She would'nt leave and just wasted our mourning. Talk about wanting to level your gun.

Mainehunt · Guru

It is very odd how some people think about crows. I live out in farm country and just about everybody I know in the area hunts, or is fine about anybody else hunting.

BUT, several guys I know who duck hunt, deer, turkey etc, say things like, "why shoot those crows, they don't deserve that........"

Weird.

Polish Hammer · Senior Member

Everyone talks a big game when it comes to confronting someone with his own gun. It all seems easy if you've never experienced it. I have NEVER been confronted in a manner to justify the use of lethal force BUT.....if some a$$hole was standing there with a .357 (Hammer ****ed) aimed right at me....he had better pull the trigger or the 11-87 would be in full use. You can't take chances when it comes to life or death. I think I'd rather explain myself to the jury than be dead. AND...99% of the time I hunt with someone and I'd always have a witness (for what that's worth).

Just my thoughts.

Hammer

Big Honkers · Guru

I am glad there are hunter harassment laws.

I am also glad there are no crow hunter e-caller VS jogger harassment laws. I would have been cited twice this year, lol. On a hunt...see a jogger off in the distance coming down the farmer two track...do not know the person...turn off the ecaller....jogger approaches with 10 feet of ecaller....i unmute the caller to unleash a sonic blast of fighting coons, howling 'yotes, or sandhill cranes....I stay hidden trying to contain my laughter as the jogger runs away needing a new set of shorts.

Good times in the crow blind.

Splash One · Senior Member

Bob wrote:

Splash,

You could have practiced the horizontal butt stroke on that fella, would have been a KO for sure.

Bob A.

Bobby just exactly what do you mean by that?
________________________________________________________________________

I too have had a gun stuck in my face... guy drove up on me on a night hunt, stuck a spotlight in my face, was screaming at me like an absolute psychopath... I eventually saw that the guy had a rifle pointed at my face from approximately 10 feet away.. I was commanded to get out of the car at gun point.

it took me about 10 minutes to calm the guy down and get him to point his rifle elsewhere... Turns out my hunting partner had accidental driven us onto this guys property... it also turns out the rifleman was the town crazy...just our luck.

I'm not just being an internet tough guy, after experiencing the "rifle" incident... I would have shouldered my shot gun and cautiously interacted with this person... you don't know what the hell someone is intending to do, there are too many crazy people in this world anymore.

Yes since everything has worked out so far NH did the right thing.

-- Edited by Splash One on Monday 21st of March 2011 08:30:18 PM

SHANEDOG · Guru

If your life is in immediate danger by someone,well then you have to make that call at the time, and as to your course of action. cry

But better to remain calm,everyone has a camera cell on them,we do not need more people thinking that the hunting public is composed of reactionary individuals.We all know the the anti's would love to use any and all bad press against us.
They already use every lie and statistic they can get. smile

Splash One · Senior Member

nhcrowshooter wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Splash One wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have leveled my gun at him and told him to stop...

MH thanks for the link.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have to have been under life threatening physical attack with no ability to retreat per our laws in order to introduce deadly force.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying here... When you say introduce deadly force... are you saying "to shoot him" or are you saying that the act of brandishing a weapon is considered deadly force all on its own?

Remember I never said OR implied I would shoot the man, of course if he charged you and you tripped and fell as you were retreating I guess you would be justified in taking his head off.

SHANEDOG... I see where you are coming from and I do not encourage or endorse that type of behavior... I was making a statement as to what "I" would do in that situation... as I was not there I am left only to imagine how tense the situation was.

As I reread the OP.. I see I somehow missed the part that the antagonist walked away from the scene. In the situation where the antagonist walked away and did not engage me, I would not have leveled my gun at him.. I would however have dropped a B-52 full of F-Bombs on the guy.

-- Edited by Splash One on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:24:54 PM

nhcrowshooter · Guru

My understanding in NH is deadly force is legally defined by "brandishing" a firearm. We just had a situation inthis state with a man named Ward Bird. He lives in a very rural area. His long driveway is plastered with no trespassing signs. One night a woman, who was in the news for other issues drove down his driveway. He asked to leave his property, she refused, he brandished a firearm and further demanded her to leave. He was arrested, found guilty and sentenced for illegal use of deadly force and went to state prison. There was a bit of a public outcry. The Governor did not pardon him but his sentence was cummuted. He is free but he remains a convicted felon.

Sad to say if you read the attached article. It's not about whether you threatened the person with deadly force, it's whether they felt threatened.

This is another example of how effed up our country has become IMO.

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/12/robert-farago/nhs-ward-bird-brandishing-case-has-property-owners-up-in-arms/

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 21st of March 2011 08:56:54 PM

Hizzoner · Senior Member

Shaneo,
I was one of the founders on "HUNTER HARRASSMENT LAW" here in the "PEOPLES REPUBLIC!" I was a board member with the CCSA- Concerned Coastal Sportsmans Association! My friend Frank "Frankie" Anderson Sponsered that law all the way to Beacon Hill till we got it passed back in the early 90's.He is now deceased,Our former president and founder of the Association. We needed this law just to maintain our rights to "FISH and FOWL" which are on the law books since "COLONIAL TIMES" but the "SCUM YUPPIES" are trying to take all this away! But it's all right for them to play there games >>>>BE HIND doh

Closed DOORS!!" bleh

SHANEDOG · Guru

Splash One wrote:

nhcrowshooter wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Splash One wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have leveled my gun at him and told him to stop...

MH thanks for the link.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have to have been under life threatening physical attack with no ability to retreat per our laws in order to introduce deadly force.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying here... When you say introduce deadly force... are you saying "to shoot him" or are you saying that the act of brandishing a weapon is considered deadly force all on its own?

Remember I never said OR implied I would shoot the man, of course if he charged you and you tripped and fell as you were retreating I guess you would be justified in taking his head off.

SHANEDOG... I see where you are coming from and I do not encourage or endorse that type of behavior... I was making a statement as to what "I" would do in that situation... as I was not there I am left only to imagine how tense the situation was.

As I reread the OP.. I see I somehow missed the part that the antagonist walked away from the scene. Could be I was so disgusted by Bob's homoerrotic fantasy's I got distracted while my gut wrenched.

In the situation where the antagonist walked away and did not engage me, I would not have leveled my gun at him.. I would however have dropped a B-52 full of F-Bombs on the guy.

Splash
I was not singling out anyone with my point,I am Irish,Polish,French Canadian and Ukranian so I have a terrible temper,but luckly I have been able to keep it under control when I have a firearm in my hands.I was only underscoring some of the points that you and others may have made. smile

I dont think the slam on Bob, the least bit was nessasary.

Splash One · Senior Member

RE: Absolutely Unbelievable - Hunter Harassment

watch em fall · Senior Member

RE: Absolutely Unbelievable - Hunter Harrassment

nhcrowshooter · Guru

If we made any mistake it was not keeping an open phone conversation between me and 10ga as he walked out.. He walked behind the guy alone for almost a mile back to the guys car leaving me to watch our guns and equipment. The guy obviously had issues and acted irrationally, you don't know how crazy the guy might be, how drunk or drugged etc. If he had taken it further starting a fight, even pulling a knife or gun 10ga was on his own and unarmed. Not that I could have gotten there fast but at least I might have heard a "help". All around an unnecessary and unfortunate incident. If nothing else we lost some time and great a deal of enjoyment that would have normally had from a good day hunting. Be careful out there and keep your cool, life is not a movie and there are all kinds of protections in the law for people doing what they shouldn't be doing.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:08:44 PM

Bob · Guru

Splash,

The horizontal butt stroke is practiced by guys in the Army with there rifle. It's used in hand to hand combat. You are almost at a port arms position when you bring up the butt of you're rifle and strike you're opponent in the chops.

Bob A.

Splash One · Senior Member

My bad... I will edit my post... I thought you were making reference to BUTT stroking... sorry.

-- Edited by Splash One on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:23:16 PM

-- Edited by Splash One on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:27:58 PM

SHANEDOG · Guru

Watchem
That's maybe the response they want!! Why play into it? Up here in Mass. if my girlfriend dials 911 and hangs up,the cops will show up,and all she has to say is" he threatened" me,and every gun I own will be out the door,kiss all your hunting good bye!!
    Didn't you guys see this crap with the TEA PARTY movement,that I am part of?? The left wingers can destroy a city at the G-9 conference,know one says boo!!!! But one bad sign and they call all of us racist and bigots!! I saw the left wingers even plant people in our crowds to try and make us look bad!! All we were saying was stop spending our money and stop the idiotic legislation!!!
   In 2001 I was the president of my condo association,I had a lady get in my face at a meeting and call me some of the worse language known to man,I was mad,and she kept taunting me ,to hit her. I just walked away,I play my game not hers,watch the left,tree huggers and such they play dirty!!!
      It sounds like some of you boys in the southern states still have laws and a culture based on common sense,well savor it,up here in the east most of the people and all of the polititions do not know what common sense is!!

-- Edited by SHANEDOG on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:27:40 PM

Bob · Guru

Shane,

That is one of the reasons I moved out of New York State in 1974. No way was I going to spend the rest of my life back there!

Bob A.

SHANEDOG · Guru

nhcrowshooter wrote:

If we made any mistake it was not keeping an open phone conversation between me and 10ga as he walked out.. He walked behind the guy alone for almost a mile back to the guys car leaving me to watch our guns and equipment. The guy obviously had issues and acted irrationally, you don't know how crazy the guy might be, how drunk or drugged etc. If he had taken it further starting a fight, even pulling a knife or gun 10ga was on his own and unarmed. Not that I could have gotten there fast but at least I might have heard a "help". All around an unnecessary and unfortunate incident. If nothing else we lost some time and great a deal of enjoyment that would have normally had from a good day hunting. Be careful out there and keep your cool, life is not a movie and there are all kinds of protections in the law for people doing what they shouldn't be doing.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:08:44 PM

Well said, NH
Lets call it, what our elustreous President would call it "a teachable moment"!! biggrin

Bob · Guru

Splash,

No problem. You never heard that term before now? That term has been around since WW2.

Bob A.

SHANEDOG · Guru

Bob wrote:

Shane,

That is one of the reasons I moved out of New York State in 1974. No way was I going to spend the rest of my life back there!

Bob A.

I hear you,Bob !! Sorry about the rant but man I get so darn mad at this crap!! One of these days I will fill you guys in on some of the B.S. that goes down in the State and Federal government construction projects I am involved in!!!!!! disbelief

watch em fall · Senior Member

I understand the consequences of such action all things considered I would have beat that SOB senseless, and then told him something we all know don't f k with other peoples property. This is a perfect example of what is wrong today, some (insert profanity) does that and nothing is done. Spit a cigarette butt or piss in an alley and they want to send you to jail. Leave a nasty note in a mail-box and you get cuffed and stuffed. NH had property being damaged. In that instance I would have laid my gun down, told polishhammer watch our 6 and kicked that guys ass. I am not a trouble-maker or over-aggresive, but I was taught right from wrong. I would have let him know the difference after I busted him up a little.

Hizzoner · Senior Member

Shaneo,
You betta go CROW KILLING this week and TAKE IT EASY!! REMEMBER we are in the peoples republic! Thank God we are not in Cambridge!! bleh

8fishermen · Guru

SHANEDOG wrote:

Watchem
That's maybe the response they want!! Why play into it? Up here in Mass. if my girlfriend dials 911 and hangs up,the cops will show up,and all she has to say is" he threatened" me,and every gun I own will be out the door,kiss all your hunting good bye!!
    Didn't you guys see this crap with the TEA PARTY movement,that I am part of?? The left wingers can destroy a city at the G-9 conference,know one says boo!!!! But one bad sign and they call all of us racist and bigots!! I saw the left wingers even plant people in our crowds to try and make us look bad!! All we were saying was stop spending our money and stop the idiotic legislation!!!
   In 2001 I was the president of my condo association,I had a lady get in my face at a meeting and call me some of the worse language known to man,I was mad,and she kept taunting me ,to hit her. I just walked away,I play my game not hers,watch the left,tree huggers and such they play dirty!!!
      It sounds like some of you boys in the southern states still have laws and a culture based on common sense,well savor it,up here in the east most of the people and all of the polititions do not know what common sense is!!

-- Edited by SHANEDOG on Monday 21st of March 2011 11:27:40 PM

Shane,

You are correct about the southern states. I am truly shocked by this. Here, especially in the area where we live, it would not have gone well for this guy. I am not saying someone would have hurt him, but the law would have acted in the hunters favor. If the hunters had held him at gunpoint till the sheriff or wardens arrived, nothing would have been said about it. I have heard of things like this but have never "known" anyone that it happened to. Down here, the locals would have seen this as you protecting your property. They would have assumed the guy was irrational as he attacked personal property with the owner standing there clearly having a gun. That's not sane behavior no matter what your political views and I am certain our judges would have had a field day with him.

God bless y'all that have to endure such madness.

SHANEDOG · Guru

When I went to my concealled carry class,the Instructor told us all,if you shoot some one in your house in self defense. "You will be put in jail" but "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"
As soon as the TCP picks my nickname I will be moving to Texas!!! confuse

-- Edited by SHANEDOG on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 12:17:02 AM

Lone Star Phil · Senior Member

NH - I am sorry you had that happen to you and your buddy but there is no question you reacted responsibly.

Three comments (and I know NH was aware of them):

The hunter harrassment law and use of lethal force discussion are good ones and we should all be aware of our legal rights and the protections offered under our state laws. Try to keep in mind, however, that your state law may offer you a defense but that's all and when the law enforcement officer comes along to find you standing there with your long gun over a nutcase with a bloody head, you'll have some explaining to do and your alleging 'hunter harrassment' will not play well to the nutcases 'aggravated assault' charge against you.

Second, the above covers only the criminal side of the event. A lot of you guys mentioned the civil liability issues and those may be more severe. Generally the standard of proof is less in civil courts than in criminal courts and it sometimes occurs that a person can be declared not guilty in a criminal trial, lose the civil trial and get a judgment against all their assets. Need an perverse example, how about OJ?

Finally, sometimes I have to remember the advice I gave and still give my boys that applies to life, athletics, business, everything and that is, the exact moment in time that your opponent compels you to do something you don't want to do or something you shouldn't do - he owns you. While you are observing any conflict of minds or bodies (basketball game, court room drama, contract negotiations), watch for the transfer of title when it occurs.

NH, well played, sir, well played!

Shane, we have nut cases here too!

SHANEDOG · Guru

Great points,LSP!! smile

8fishermen · Guru

SHANEDOG wrote:

Great points,LSP!!

+1

Gadget Bob · Guru

Hi Phil,

Excellent life advice, as usual!

Hi Shane,

I was thinking Ranger Dog or San Saba Shane... San Saba has lots of crows!

Regards,

Hizzoner · Senior Member

Better to take a step backwards and "THINK ABOUT IT" I should talk! But its tough to learn the hard way!! hmm