Crow Busters Forum

Kev, my 10ga Parker is a model NH or Grade 1, they came with "Twist" steel barrels. My Remington 1894 10ga double has Damascus steel, Boston S2J pattern. 10gacrowshooter's has a couple of model EH Parker or Grade 2, they come with Damascus steel barrels. There is no perceptible strength difference between Twist and Damascus known to exist. The difference lies in the number of the bands of metals and how they were twisted before being hammer forged.  Damascus was thought to be better looking than twist.  The nicest looking Damascus barrels IMO are "Chain" Damascus.

Parker NH with Twist Steel barrels:



Remington 1894 B grade Damascus Steel barrels:

L.C. Smith 10ga with Chain Damascus (not mine but I wish it was)

https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p307/Chesador/LC%20Smith%2010%20Ga%20Chain%20Damascus/LC10ChainD_008.jpg

Kev, the man that started the revival of using composite barrels with nitro powders was Sir Sherman Bell in his articles titled "Finding out for Myself". His initial test was to collect 15 junk wall hangers, pitted barrels, cracked stocks, various manufacturers. He put them in a jig and fired some Remington proof loads, 18000+ psi. None of the barrels had a problem. He then took two Parker shotguns, made in the same year, one with Damascus the other with fluid steel, and fired them with higher and higher pressures until they blew. He did this testing with Tom Armbrust. The result was both Damascus and fluid steel barrels burst at about the same pressure, around 32,000 pi which is close to 3X the SAAMI max. Obviously each gun has to be looked at individually. A general rul of thumb is no less than .090 barrel wall thickness just ahead of the chamber and no thinner than .025 ahead of the chokes. Most people who shoot composite barrels reload to keep both pressure and velocity down but not so much to protect the barrels but to be kind to 100+ year old wood.
What the average person doesn't realize is nitro powders were well into use in the late 1800's and many of the Dam and Twist barrel guns never fired a load of black powder.

There is a lot of good information in this thread on ShotgunWorld if your interested.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=259371

I agree BH those old H&R 10ga single barrels were too light in spite of 36" barrel and a steel rod inside the butt stock for additional weight. Back in the late 90's I hunted with a man around Cambridge Maryland, who has since passed, who used one of those guns on Snow geese. He shot reloaded steel shot, although he only had one shot he almost always made it count and learned to swat them consistently in the 60 and 70 yard range.

The 10 gauge has been a specialty shotgun since the invention of the 3.5 inch shell in the 1930's. The guns and shells for it today are aimed at long range waterfowl hunting or big birds, geese and turkey. We have collectively long since forgotten how amazing that big hole in the barrel is with lighter loads in shorter shells as they have not been available for many decades. You can't beat a big 10 with 1 1/8 ounce on clays or with 1 1/4 ounce on crows with a 12, it's performance is spectacular and out of proportion to what the average wing shooter would think it could do. You have to use one or stand next to one to see for yourself. Size matters when it comes to shotguns, a bigger bore with a lighter payload is better than a smaller bore with a heavier payload in the full choke range of shots.

nhcrowshooter wrote:

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As some know 10gacrowshooter and I are big fans of and shoot a lot of crows with our 1890's vintage Parker doubles.  These are not the magnum guns of today as we shoot 2 7/8" shells loaded with 1 1/4 ounce of shot, the traditional load of the era. We have been amazed with the long range capability of these guns on both birds, and clays with 1 1/8 ounce.  We frequently kill crows at ranges that neither of us would attempt with a 12ga full choke.  It's great fun. The larger bore combined with larger diameter shells (less scrub, less crushing) leads to 85 to even 100% patterns at 40 yards.  The 10ga was banned from live pigeon shooting and trap shooting around the turn of the 20th century, and it was done so for a reason.

 

September 11, 1886, an article entitled “The Dougall Gun In America,” by Gaucho, appeared in the American Field

In this article DuBray is discussing and comparing this new gun on the American landscape and some prior comments made by Mr. Dougall in a previous issue of the American Field. DuBray writes, “I cannot agree with Mr. Dougall, however, when he says that the best pigeon gun should weigh from 7 to 7 1/4 pounds, and shoot 3 1/4 drams of powder and 1 1/4 ounces of shot. Neither do I think that ten men thus equipped would stand any chance of winning in America against ten-gauge guns with 4 to 4 ½ drams of powder and 1 1/4 ounces of shot. Dr. Carver studiously avoided all contests with ten-gauge gun men and could not be coaxed into shooting with a man like Fred Kimble, for instance. Yet Dr. Carver is a superb shot with a twelve-gauge and perhaps the equal of any man; at all events he worried them fearfully in Europe.”

 

January 10, 1885, an article entitled “Gaucho to Doctor Carver,” appeared in American Field. In this piece, A. W. du Bray questions Dr. Carver as to why he will not shoot against a 10-bore gun. The article read in separate parts as follows:

“Now then, as a matter of fact, how much greater will be the circle at thirty-three to thirty-five yards made by a full choked 10-gauge gun, than is attained by a similarly choked 12-bore? In any event when loaded with one and one-quarter ounces ofshot, which is the limit for the 10-bores, how much closer a pattern does Doctor Carver’s gun make than those used say by Bogardus, Kimble, Tucker, Kleinman, Hauworth, Meaders, Crittenden, Robinson, and hosts of others who shoot full choked 10-bore guns........Still he religiously avoids these dreadful 10-bore gun men, andcan’t be coaxed, it seems, to trying conclusions with them, in support of which I respectfully refer to Captain Bogardus’ many and varied challenges, and also the one from the Peoria Gun Club of Illinois, to all of which the Doctor has turned a deaf ear; yet there was money in these matches; no stint of it. And Kimble, the Peoria man, is still on deck........Kimble with one barrel, gun below the elbow, 1 1/4 ounces of shot, did better in his match with Kleintz than Dr. Carver, although the Doctor had the use of two barrels, gun just under arm pit and vastly easier birds, but then you see Fred is one of these happy-go-lucky-anywhere-in-the-vicinity sort of shots that it is not to be wondered at. If the Doctor ever runs against Kimble on a duck pass, when a good stiff breeze is blowing, I guess he will suddenly change his mind about these scattering guns used by the trap shots of America; also that some of these ‘small-headed advocates’ are not such duffers as he would make people at large believe.”

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Saturday 16th of March 2013 09:36:12 PM

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