Crow Busters Forum

nhcrowshooter · Guru

National ammo and reloading component shortage

nhcrowshooter · Guru

I don't think it is just the result of hoarding. The federal government has been ordering HUGE quantities of small arms ammunition. Yesterday it was reported DHS ordered another 360,000 rounds of 40 cal hollow point. This is on top of the over 2 BILLION rounds already ordered. The gov't goes to the top of the list and that kind of quantity requires a lot of lead, powder and primer materials. I suspect we are seeing small arms ammunition scarcity that has not been seen since World War II. I guess the big question is, what is the government planning to do with so much ammunition? These orders far exceed the amount used in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 01:42:22 PM

Old Artilleryman · Guru

(little) Supply & (lotsa) Demand: As to how all of this came about, this will make an interesting study to read some day--if we last that long.

Think I go to Wally-World today and pick up a couple of more boxes of generic 12 ga. 7 1/2s, adjacent to where they used to have ammo for sale.

Mainehunt · Guru

Holy crap that's depressing.....................

Old Artilleryman · Guru

As the t-shirt ad says:

"I used to care. But now I take a pill for that." confuse

Mike27 · Senior Member

nh,

I was in a N.J. store recently and 9mm had a 1 box limit , 22 bricks forget it, 100 round limit. I know someone that sold a brick of 22's for $50 that they paid in the teens for.

OA,

I was in PA. in January, and 2 weeks ago, Wally had barely any ammo in any caliber both times. And the cheapo 12 ga. not a single box.

All this panic buying is just making the ammo companies rich.

Mike

needmorebacon · Veteran Member

http://offgridsurvival.com/ammoshortage-signofthingstocome/

I think this is also a pretty good read. If the local forces don't have it, where are they stockpiling this stuff!

Bob · Guru

I picked up 16 flats of 12 gauge trap loads a short time back for this very reason.

The El Cheapo loads have gone up .50 cents a box in 12 gauge trap loads at Wal Mart.

If you can buy a two year supply of ammo that sounds like good advise to me!

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Just to see what was going on I put the prices for what is currently available in my area for available reloading components and regardless of shot size it comes to $6.40 a box for 1 1/8 loads, plus tax. The same store has Federal brand target loads priced at $64.99 plus tax per flat (10 boxes).

Currently there are auctions on Gunbroker.com where dealers are selling 16 pounds of IMR-700x for $475 plus $48.00 shipping. That is near $33 a pound. This is nuts.

Mike27 · Senior Member

Back in late December, I know someone that was in the Pa. Cabelas store. Did you ever see in a movie where someone is walking down the bread isle with there arm out blindly scooping loafs into a carraige. There was a guy almost doing this in the ammo section. A store employee asked him what he was doing and if he had all these different calibers. His responce was it didn't matter and someone I know might have a need for them.

That there was an example of a panic hoarder.

needmorebacon · Veteran Member

only thing on Ballistic Products is 8lb keg of green dot- $125.39

Mainehunt · Guru

Mike27 wrote:
Back in late December, I know someone that was in the Pa. Cabelas store. Did you ever see in a movie where someone is walking down the bread isle with there arm out blindly scooping loafs into a carraige. There was a guy almost doing this in the ammo section. A store employee asked him what he was doing and if he had all these different calibers. His responce was it didn't matter and someone I know might have a need for them.
That there was an example of a panic hoarder.

The Cabelas store in Maine won't allow that. (IF they had any ammo) They have been limiting their customers to 2 boxes for the past couple of months.

Mike27 · Senior Member

Kev,

There is limits now. That happened right after Sandy Hook.

Mike

Mainehunt · Guru

Mike27 wrote:
Kev,
There is limits now. That happened right after Sandy Hook.
Mike

correct

Buckshot1822 · Senior Member

It certainly is not as bad here, as it was a month, or even 2 weeks ago..............but if we could get people to stop with their nonsense hoarding, then the shortage would slow very quickly, and within a few weeks to a month we would have everything we needed to buy available....

I am able to find most powders, mostprimers, lead shot, wads, etc.......local

I can also find most rifle/pistol ammo in some nearby shops..........some stuff they have a limit on, just so these hoarders can't continue to ruin it for anyone else, and I don't blame them.....

My point is, the stuff is out there if you know where to look.......prices are up a little, but not near as bad as powder and ammo on gunbroker would make you think......those people are F-Nut crazy, and they are typically the biggest contributors to the shortage, people buying for no other reason than the intent to re-sell.....

-- Edited by Buckshot1822 on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 11:58:42 PM

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Perhaps we'll be use to the limits by the time the government imposes them on us..........

Buckshot1822 · Senior Member

Mainehunt wrote:
Buckshot, what state are you in? Our shelves here in Maine are pretty much bare and if you can find anything, the price is double or triple than what it was 4 or 5 months ago.

Rural Pennsylvania................................but I also live within an hour or so of a few pretty big wholesalers too.........if anyone can get their hands on stuff it is them, and it I have to at least commend them for not going the price gouging route that they could be...

-- Edited by Buckshot1822 on Wednesday 27th of March 2013 12:55:54 AM

nhcrowshooter · Guru

needmorebacon wrote:
only thing on Ballistic Products is 8lb keg of green dot- $125.39

That is good to know, either they made a lot of Green Dot before the rush or it's not as popular.

Old Artilleryman · Guru

OK. Back from Wally World. After having been on a two-week road trip, I find that generic 12-ga is two bucks higher and the "three-box" (at least it's a big box of 100) is still in place. I bought my three X 100 rounds at $25.27 per, plus tax.

BTW, if you haven't received today's American Rifleman, it has a grand cover shot that all of you will recognize.

chip · Guru

Not one person on this site should be surprised or shocked. We have been preaching that this was comin for 2 years. The only thing they got over on me was 22 shells. I guess I won't be peelin any squirells out when the pig nuts are ripe. I didn't need the chiggers anyway. I'm no doomsday prepper but somthin bigger is on its way down the pike fellas. We have not at all seen the worst of this nightmare!!!! Thank you Mr. Obama But I don't believe for a minute you can choke this hillbilly to death wink

Bob · Guru

Well if a guy can afford to, it sure can't hurt to sock some ammo away, it ain't gonna eat any oats.

Bert Popowski went through this during the war years, trying to get ammo here and there. If you can see this coming as Chip stated then you still have time to prepare for the future. I wouldn't wait to long!

Bob A.

Mainehunt · Guru

Buckshot, what state are you in? Our shelves here in Maine are pretty much bare and if you can find anything, the price is double or triple than what it was 4 or 5 months ago.

Mainehunt · Guru

Buckshot1822 wrote:
Mainehunt wrote:
Buckshot, what state are you in? Our shelves here in Maine are pretty much bare and if you can find anything, the price is double or triple than what it was 4 or 5 months ago.

Rural Pennsylvania................................but I also live within an hour or so of a few pretty big wholesalers too.........if anyone can get their hands on stuff it is them, and it I have to at least commend them for not going the price gouging route that they could be...

-- Edited by Buckshot1822 on Wednesday 27th of March 2013 12:55:54 AM

I may have to drive south..................

nhcrowshooter · Guru

I can see it now........we all stock up on components including lead shot (or loaded lead shells) to last a few years and the government announces a lead shot ban on crows.

needmorebacon · Veteran Member

nhcrowshooter wrote:
I can see it now........we all stock up on components including lead shot (or loaded lead shells) to last a few years and the government announces a lead shot ban on crows.

if i buy my license and hunt on property i have permission to ill shoot whatever i want into the sky.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

needmorebacon wrote:
nhcrowshooter wrote:
I can see it now........we all stock up on components including lead shot (or loaded lead shells) to last a few years and the government announces a lead shot ban on crows.
if i buy my license and hunt on property i have permission to ill shoot whatever i want into the sky.

Why wait, try that now with ducks and geese, let us know what the Warden says when you get checked.

Bob · Guru

I hunt crows in different states and in 39 years I have only been checked three times.

There is a banker out here who has never gone to steel shot for waterfowl (an outlaw with money) because he does not want to shoot it through his high grade doubles. He keeps steel shot with him but never shoots it. He scatteres some spent steel shot hulls around the blind just for show. I remember years back he got caught on several occassions with ducks way over the limit, (during the legal lead years) he just paid the fine and kept on shootin! The judge told him the third time he went before him that if he saw him again (the banker) he would serve some jail time! I never did find out if he got caught again. It would have been smarter on his part to have the Game Warden in his hip pocket. I'm not condoning what he does, just making a point that money is power, if you have enough you can pretty much do what you want as long as you have a damn good lawyer.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Bob wrote:
I hunt crows in different states and in 39 years I have only been checked three times.

There is a banker out here who has never gone to steel shot for waterfowl (an outlaw with money) because he does not want to shoot it through his high grade doubles. He keeps steel shot with him but never shoots it. He scatteres some spent steel shot hulls around the blind just for show. I remember years back he got caught on several occassions with ducks way over the limit, (during the legal lead years) he just paid the fine and kept on shootin! The judge told him the third time he went before him that if he saw him again (the banker) he would serve some jail time! I never did find out if he got caught again. It would have been smarter on his part to have the Game Warden in his hip pocket. I'm not condoning what he does, just making a point that money is power, if you have enough you can pretty much do what you want as long as you have a damn good lawyer.

Must be an abundance of Wardens here (or lack of them where you are), I was checked twice last fall, two different Wardens.

Mainehunt · Guru

I got checked for the first time ever last fall while duck hunting. I was paddling my canoe, gun loaded, headed to blind. Warden was sitting along stream, he calls me over to the bank. He says you need orange on when not actively hunting without decoys or being in a blind. I said I am actively hunting, just haven't jumped any ducks yet. He thinks, he mumbles, he reads the law book. He finally said, go ahead and hunt but next time you need orange on when not hunting. I said, I AM hunting. He says good luck. I paddle away. He never checked for a license, or stamps, or if I was using non toxic shot or not.

Bob · Guru

Kev,

Sounds like that warden was befuddled.

My old business partners and I were filming a duck hunt and when we returned to the boat ramp (just us, no other hunters) two wardens met us. I said to em "hey you ever hear the story of the young gent who joins this fancy duck club in Minnesota?" They said no. So I proceed with my story....... I say that this young guy (early 40's) is shooting alone in his heated duck blind just knocking the ducks off left and right. He had over 50 down dead on the water when one of the older members of the club got out of his blind and waded over to the young bucks blind. The older member asks "what do you think you are doing? You must have over 50 dead ducks down already. Don't you know that the limit is six and that is all you can shoot?" The younger shooter (guy in his 40's) says to the older gent "**** em, they didn't save any buffalo for me!"

Anyway the wardens got a very good laugh over that story but here is the best part. They never even asked to see our licence or duck stamps. They never even checked the boat to see if we were over the limit. We were legal as hell but I suppose they figured a guy with balls enough to tell two game wardens that story had to be legal! True story may God strike me dead!

Bob A.

Mainehunt · Guru

That's a good one Bob. :)

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Given the tragic event in Boston yesterday the run on reloading components may get worse and gov't restrictions could result.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/foghorn/boston-bombings-may-spark-restrictions-on-reloading-components-tannerite/

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Tuesday 16th of April 2013 01:32:21 PM

Old Artilleryman · Guru

Yes, there are many craven politicians and assorted human debris who would like to ban "low-order explosives" (powder) --a phrase that has been dropped a lot during the past hours and the components (primers) that can set them off, in order to ignite a higher explosive in the train of components.

Just wait.

Then again, speaking of human debris, there's the perp(s) who did this in the first place. I'm afraid we're going to see more of this. Quite frankly, I am very surprised it has not happened much more, giving the couple of billion or so out there who would like to see the U.S. go up in flames.

Bob · Guru

I hate to see this....... but it sure wouldn't hurt to put back (in ammo) as much as you can afford too. You ain't going to shoot any crows if the gun does not go bang!

Mainehunt · Guru

I bought more powder, shot, primers, wads yesterday, didn't really have the extra money but I feel like I need to get all I can while I can. Makes me a hoarder I guess, but I'm worried.

Old Artilleryman · Guru

I don't agree with everything that comes out of National Review (On-line) but they have their heart in the right place. Today's editorial provides evidence of just how despicable this President is and how he and his handlers have absolutely no sense of shame. Regretably, some of the parents of the slain children have little to no discretion or sense of decorum (Remember those words?).

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/345762/don%E2%80%99t-let-logic-ruin-good-law

This shows what we are up against, as if you did not know...

nhcrowshooter · Guru

One month later from my orginal post and I see no improvement in the situation. Largest major retailer, Kittery Trading Post, powder supplies are almost zilch. During the course of the month 2 4lb jugs of 700-X came in and 4 lbs of Red Dot that I know of. Of course it sold quick. Winchester 209's are available but pricey. KTP is the only place with lead shot and that is sitting there at $49.99. All major internet retailers have mostly bare shelves as well for powder. 22 LR and most metallic cartridges in popular psitol and rifle calibers are sold out as well. My advice if you see components you use, buy them even if the price is a little higher than you are use to. There is no telling when this situation will end.

I wrote an e-mail to the National Shooting Sports Association (NSSF) asking them to post information relative to what is going on and when to expect it to get better. There was nothing on their web page earlier this week. They are THE go between for shooters and manufacturers. As yet they have not answered my e-mail.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Thursday 25th of April 2013 10:09:15 AM

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Article - Gun shops rationing ammo

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/gun-shops-rationing-ammo-we-have-police-departments-are-scrambling

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Thursday 25th of April 2013 07:05:59 PM

Mainehunt · Guru

NH,

I have a guy that sells wholesale for shotgun reloading supplies. He had many 4# jugs of 700x, bags of shot, (the guy he buys from just got 3,000 pounds of shot in) and primers. Primers are $33 a 1,000, I think it was $80 for the 4# of 700x, all the wads you want, etc...

If you need supplies send me a PM. He is in the Augusta area.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Mainehunt wrote:
NH,

I have a guy that sells wholesale for shotgun reloading supplies. He had many 4# jugs of 700x, bags of shot, (the guy he buys from just got 3,000 pounds of shot in) and primers. Primers are $33 a 1,000, I think it was $80 for the 4# of 700x, all the wads you want, etc...

If you need supplies send me a PM. He is in the Augusta area.

Thanks MH, I have a pretty good supply on hand at the moment and add a little here and there as I find stuff. $80 for a 4lb jug of 700x is no bargain, but if you don't have any what choice do you have, 4 months ago I could get 8 lbs for $105. Primers at $33 are OK but not great, what is the price of shot? I found a guy in Florida who is making shot from reclaimed lead shot, melting it down, and then taking the new shot and tumbling in graphite. The stuff looks perfect, I bought 50 lbs of #8 for trap and skeet. $40.25 per 25 lbs shipped to your door. My local guy was selling Fiocchi 616 (209 type) primers for $22 per 1K but those have dried up.

KenCrow · Senior Member

I live in Winston Salem, N.C. and I have'nt seen any shortage of any ammo of any kind, and reloading components abound! A couple of years ago, when it appeared commie Obamie may win re-election, there was a temporary shortage of some pistol ammo, and .223 Rem. was in short supply. Not any more. There is plenty of it at gun shows, and retail stores. I was at Gander Mountain about 6 weeks ago, and they had pallets full of shotgun shells!

What may very well happen, commie Obamie, with his Nazi, communist, fascist, socialist, demonic, godless bed buddies, may buy up all the lead that lead mines can produce, and prevent it from ever getting to ammunition manufacturing companies. You may have heard that the Dept. of Homeland Security, (home land security?) is buying 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition. What for? My theory is that the communist, Nazi democrats, headed by Obamie, want it to kill americans, just in case we ever have guts enough to revolt. But that will never happen. Revolution is the ONLY thing that will save this country, our Bill of Rights, and Constitution, from total destruction by democrats.

Kencrow

Mainehunt · Guru

Around where I live stores don't have any pistol or rifle ammo except maybe some .458 mag rifle ammo.

Powder by the pound, IF you can find it is $25 per pound. That's why I'm happy to pay $80 for a 4# jug.

Talking at the local coffee house, I mentioned I had a couple thousand rounds of .22LR and a guy offered me 50 bucks for a thousand. Probably should have sold it, but I didn't.

Bob · Guru

What is the cost per box to reload at these prices?

Bob A.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

As many suspect the Federal Government's enormous purchases of small arms ammunition has been a major factor in the ammo and component shortage. Republican's are now trying to stop it.

"In response to nationwide shortages of ammunition and concerns amongst Americans regarding the Department of Homeland Security’s enormous ammo orders, Senate and House Republicans have introduced legislation that would limit stockpiling of bullets by federal agencies.

The bill, known as the Ammunition Management for More Obtainability Act, or AMMO act for short, was authored by Sen. Jim Inhofe (R., Okla.) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R., Okla.) who say that there must be more “transparency and accountability” regarding government stockpiling"

http://marketdailynews.com/2013/04/26/the-ammo-act-of-2013-takes-aim-at-department-of-homeland-securitys-ammunition-stockpiling/

Mainehunt · Guru

nhcrowshooter wrote:
As many suspect the Federal Government's enormous purchases of small arms ammunition has been a major factor in the ammo and component shortage. Republican's are now trying to stop it.
"In response to nationwide shortages of ammunition and concerns amongst Americans regarding the Department of Homeland Security’s enormous ammo orders, Senate and House Republicans have introduced legislation that would limit stockpiling of bullets by federal agencies.
The bill, known as the Ammunition Management for More Obtainability Act, or AMMO act for short, was authored by Sen. Jim Inhofe (R., Okla.) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R., Okla.) who say that there must be more “transparency and accountability” regarding government stockpiling"
http://marketdailynews.com/2013/04/26/the-ammo-act-of-2013-takes-aim-at-department-of-homeland-securitys-ammunition-stockpiling/

I wonder just hpw many YEARS it will take for the government stockpiling to stop, IF the bill passes.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

If the governments large purchase of small arms was deliberate in an attempt to make ammo hard to find and expensive it will backfire in the long run. That is because markets are not static, when demand exceeds supply there is a ready market, where this is a ready market existing and new producers will take action to meet that demand.

SHANEDOG · Guru

Great thread,NH!! Same problem in my area,I have been working of of my stock,but I am starting to look for propellant for my AR-15's..

Stay vigilant my friends! smile

Mainehunt · Guru

Shanedog,

Are there any "shotgun" powders that would work for your AR-15 reloads? It seems that the shotgun reloading supplies are easier to come by right now.

Kev

SHANEDOG · Guru

Hi Maine

The powders I use for my rifles are long or short stick powders with slower burn rates. smile

I have a bunch of International Clays and a bunch of Tite-Wad for my scatter guns but that is for crow and pigeon work furious

Update!! Just found some 220 Swift (big gun is being sold) rounds and pulled the bullets for some precious IMR-4064 for my 22-250 night coyote snipers rounds.

I will find some AR propellant,as I have mad skills! biggrin

-- Edited by SHANEDOG on Wednesday 1st of May 2013 12:58:29 AM

Mainehunt · Guru

SHANEDOG wrote:
Hi Maine
The powders I use for my rifles are long or short stick powders with slower burn rates.
I have a bunch of International Clays and a bunch of Tite-Wad for my scatter guns but that is for crow and pigeon work
Update!! Just found some 220 Swift (big gun is being sold) rounds and pulled the bullets for some precious IMR-4064 for my 22-250 night coyote snipers rounds.
I will find some AR propellant,as I have mad skills!

-- Edited by SHANEDOG on Wednesday 1st of May 2013 12:58:29 AM

You ever use IMR3031 in your AR rounds? It's my most accurate round for .223, I use 24 grains of that powder under a 52 grain Nosler BT.