Crow Busters Forum

Edrish · Member

Best shotgun for crow hunting in Finland? need suggestions.

NGillespie10 · Senior Member

Welcome Edrish! I use a Remington 870 Express with a 26 inch barrel and a modified choke. Works well for me with as far as length goes and gives me a good pattern with #7.5 shot. It is on the heavy side, but synthetic stocks are easy to come by. I'm only 170cm tall, but this shotgun fits me pretty well.

Edrish · Member

Hello NG, so you would say that the express model is stordy enough. Synthetic or wooden version? Pros and cons?

Lone Star Phil · Senior Member

Edrish:

As you and many of the posters have suggested, choosing a shotgun for a given game situation is a intensely personal decision. And you've done a lot of work checking the market. I'll contribute my personal comments for what they're worth:

1. I don't think you can go wrong with a pump shotgun. I've tried semi-autos and don't have the patience for their cycling - I have to have something to do between shots and stroking the pump satisfies that need.

2. One can't argue with the commercial success of the venerable Model 870. They work like a hose and there are a plethora of aftermarket products available for that gun that rival the Ruger Model 10/22 or the AR15. And they are relatively inexpensive as you have found because there are over 6 million on this planet.

3. Personally, I prefer a tang safety mechanism. That preference narrows my field of choice of slide-action guns to the BPS, Mossberg, or a hammer half notch (Model 1897). Of course I am narrowing the field and excluding fine doubles but I'm a magazine guy (There is nothing pretty about my shooting!). I physically equate the 'thumb forward-safety off" position with the image of "the Angel of Death is coming out the muzzle". The safety goes forward when the stock hits my shoulder pocket. Thumbing back the safety keeps the Angel in the gun. Working the safety with a digit other than my trigger finger simplifies operation for me. Cross bolt safeties, at least for me, are awkward at best and easier to take off safety than to re-engage the safety and that's not good. Your results will probably differ.

4. If you hunt in bad, wet weather, that BPS is hard to beat and, if you reload or are a tidy shooter, having the expended hulls ejected right in front of you will be convenient to you but probably annoy your dog. The BPS does not have the dearth of aftermarket products available to customize your gun like the 870 and the Mossberg though.

5. Make sure that whatever shotgun you buy has the facility for screw-in chokes. 99% of the loads I send through my shotguns pass through an Improved Cylinder choke tube but it is nice to be able to change them out for another constrictor if the field situation demands it. Three weeks ago, in a very 'tight' field shooting situation, I changed from IC to Cylinder on some mourning dove working a stock tank and it made all the difference.

6. Why not get a shorter barrel for you Nova? The Texas Crow Patrol routinely uses barrel lengths from approximately 5 feet to 20 inches. I don't know the metric equivalents.

-- Edited by Lone Star Phil on Friday 20th of September 2013 02:18:52 AM

-- Edited by Lone Star Phil on Friday 20th of September 2013 05:11:12 PM

Bob · Guru

Erik,

26" or 28" barrels are fine on a pump for crows, it's more a matter of what a guy likes; I prefer the 26" barrel for my own use.

A good used Wing Master is hard to beat in regard to reliability. If it's a fixed choke you could always have a gunsmith thread the muzzle for choke tubes at a later date. Just ask around on which ones pattern the best. If you buy one with a 30" barrel you can always have a gunsmith cut the barrel down to 26" and fit it with choke tubes.

Bob A.

NGillespie10 · Senior Member

Edrish wrote:

Hello NG, so you would say that the express model is stordy enough. Synthetic or wooden version? Pros and cons?

It is very sturdy and is a proven design. I have the wooden stock, but to lessen the weight, a synthetic stock would work (plus you can get it in camo).

Pros: cheap, lots of cheap replacement parts/accessories, reliable and sturdy.

Cons: Its heavier than a lot of the newer synthetic shotguns, but that's about all I can think of.

I've put quite a few rounds through mine, have had it for probably 10 years, and have no issues with it.

Mossberg 500s are also a good choice, and have an ambidextrous safety, in case your friend is left handed. The 870 fit me better than the 500, but its personal preference.

Edrish · Member

Hello Bob, i think thats sounds like a good idea. What i heard the good old wingmasters are better made than the new ones because the factories are set to make express versions and that the wingmasters are a bit more refined. The old one were made with much more details and time... So if the full is too tight give the old wingmaster to a gunsmith.

NG, Or then go and buy a new express so that if you get a crappy one you can send it back to the factory...

Phil, My supernova is fine for me because im tall but for my friend its a bit to big.. especially the lengt of pull is long with the supernova and the reduced gelpad cost around 100 euros what is quite sick. I can buy a new tactical pistol grip for 130 euros but thats not so good with hunting? or is it? It took a while to get used to my supernova because i have been hunting with an hand made german Simson that is light and short. The patterns on the gun is superb much better than the benelli, but it does not go bang five times nor can it chew on steel. Getting a new barrel would be nice but they cost like 500 euros here so its hilarious, how about the slug barrels is there any point in getting one? for deer, badgers raccoon dogs for distances not longer than 100 yards?

Thanks guys.

Bob · Guru

Erik,

Here are two (one 20 gauge, one 12 gauge) Remington 870 Wing Masters that I have used for decades.

Bob A.

Edrish · Member

Bob, so gauge 20 is good for crows as well. My little brother is getting our fathers old valmet over under 20 gauge with fixed choke. Good for birds light to carry and fast to lift.. have you Bob or anyone else used this old military tarp/poncho as camo during crow hunt? I mean if not possible to make blind just cower yourself with that poncho and sitt and wait near a tree or bush for the crows to come. Maybe I can increase the stealth by gluing some stripes on the poncho... so i whould be the hide myself...hmmm

Rook-ie · Senior Member

No matter what camo you cover yourself with, your movement will give it away.

Jerry

Bob · Guru

Erik,

Not everyone hunts the same, some like to do as you say but my method and I have more than one depending on the situation.

Whether you are run & gunning (quick stands that only last on average for a few minutes and then you move) or hunting from a single location and letting the birds come to you it is best to pick a spot where you have good cover in front of you where the birds approach from. The cover needs to be at least 4 feet high so the birds won't spot you before they get into range. You also need good cover on both of your flanks as well.

Bob A.

Edrish · Member

Bob I wish I got your experience and wisdom. .. I do have some patience and problemsolving skill. So hopefully ill learn by time.. this is way off topic but do you Bob have experience with badger hunting? I was askt by a farmer to go hunt some badger as they come in the night for som fast food, stored grains. Ill use my 22 mag, the food is around 50 meters away. Ill sitt and wait in the barn that has a peephole for my barrel. Im ok shooter but I have not practice enough on moving targets so ill shoot when their eating. Aim at the heart and shoot a second shot as fast as I can. Try to get a fast death not to get a pretty pelt. Ill use jacketed holopoints and try to be quiet. Any advises? Thanks

Bob · Guru

Erik,

It's far better to take your time and make one very good well placed shot than to rush!

Next, check the wind if there is any the evening you plan to hunt; and pick a good hiding spot "down wind" from where these badgers eat, this way they can't pick up your scent.

Bob A.

Edrish · Member

Bob I read some discussion about hitting the target and I made some research and I think I dont have a dominating eye. So when I shoot with shotguns im not so good and I tried now to close my left eye and aim with right and it felt better. I think my brain gets mixed info if I have both eyes open. Im so used to use optics with rifles were I have both eyes open and with rifles im ok but I suck with shotguns. As the barrel feel allways wrong pointed with both eyes open. I have to try this out real shooting I mean. Does this make any sense?

Bob · Guru

Erik,

Here is how to find out which eye is your master eye. If you are right handed point your trigger finger at a small spot on the wall with your left eye closed, now hold your finger on that spot and open your left eye. If your finger does not move once you open your left eye then you are right eye dominant. If your finger does move off the spot once you open your left eye then you are left eye dominant.

Lets hope if you are right handed that you are right eye dominant!

Bob A.

Edrish · Member

Bob I tried the finger and it moved... but it moves as well if I do it with left finger an right eye closed. And I did some other tests as well and I think I dont have a dominating eye. There is a few procent of the population that doesn't have a dominating eye... that explains why I suck with shotguns as the barrel move with both eyes open.. the visiual imput jumps from one eye to the other for me and the barrel moves just as it does with the finger...

Bob · Guru

Erik,

If you are sure then I would just wear a patch over one eye.

Bob A.

Skip · Guru

Erik: Do you wear glasses... corrective lens to help your vision? If so, I have a suggestion that will help some!!

skip

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Skip wrote:
Erik: Do you wear glasses... corrective lens to help your vision? If so, I have a suggestion that will help some!!
skip

Let me guess a piece of tape to obscure the view of the non sighting eye. allowing the sighting eye to remain dominant but still allow for depth perception.

M12Shooter · Guru

nhcrowshooter wrote:
Skip wrote:
Erik: Do you wear glasses... corrective lens to help your vision? If so, I have a suggestion that will help some!!
skip
Let me guess a piece of tape to obscure the view of the non sighting eye. allowing the sighting eye to remain dominant but still allow for depth perception.

Or shoot left...

Ted

8fishermen · Guru

Bob wrote:
Erik,

Here is how to find out which eye is your master eye. If you are right handed point your trigger finger at a small spot on the wall with your left eye closed, now hold your finger on that spot and open your left eye. If your finger does not move once you open your left eye then you are right eye dominant. If your finger does move off the spot once you open your left eye then you are left eye dominant.

Lets hope if you are right handed that you are right eye dominant!

Bob A.

Hey Bob,

I know what you are saying, but I don't think what you meant was what you wrote.

I think you are supposed to point at the spot with BOTH eyes open. Just point naturally like you would to point out a bird in a tree with your finger ending up in your line of sight. THEN close one eye at a time and see which one caused the finger to jump to the other side. Right eye dominant will cause the finger to stay still when the left eye is closed and will cause the finger to jump right when the right eye is closed. It is opposite for a left eye dominate person.

Here is a video of another way to test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIVayKuQGG4 You could use this technique and pick a small spot on the wall then close one eye and see which one is focused on the spot. The focused eye is the dominate eye.

Bob · Guru

Hi Greg,

I understand what you are saying.

I just tried it both ways and get the same result. I never needed to close the right eye because my finger never moved off the spot. I suppose a guy could double check that way if he felt the need.

I just bought a set of 10 ply tires for the gas hog, going to try and get less flats off road this season.

So, you doing ok?

Bob A.

8fishermen · Guru

Hey Bob,

All good here. Going to get our first hunt in this coming weekend.

As I thought more on what you wrote, I understood what you were saying but based on the comments of Eric, I am not sure he got a definitive answer of his eye dominance. I have a son that is right handed and left eye dom. He used to lay his head across the stock to try to shoot. I finally realized what he was doing and had him switch to his his left shoulder. It took him a little work to get the trigger control down but you would never know he is not left handed now. Last time we went hunting was a dove hunt. Birds were not flying very well but he killed as many birds as I did (six each). He is 11 now and is so looking forward to crow season.

Are you getting ready for some early orchard hunting?

Edrish · Member

Thanks guys for the comment, yeas i have glasses that correct a little Astigmatism but i only wear them when i need to read a lot. I can try that, but still the non dominance could be a reason. Se when i was a baby a used both my right and left hands i only get used to use the right so i have learn to be right hand dominant. Still use my left hand a lot... Dont know if this matters or not.... And i cant shoot with left shoulder sens i badly broke my collarbone in my teens, it has healed a bit off. it would hurt a lot to shoot with the left side and it feels unconformable to lift left.

I need to try with glasses and to close left eye.... or with patch.

Edrish · Member

We went for badger hunting last evening with my .22 mag. The grains and apples were at a distance around 45 meter and we waited in a tower/box for many hours. Did not want to startle the animals by coming to late... I heard the crows in the distance and man i wanted to go there.. Well any ways 8:05 pm we hear 3 shots fired some miles away.. 8:20 i think i saw 2 badgers walking towards the bait but then came a deer and the badgers run away. That dam deer came and spoiled it all, then suddenly something happened and the deer got spooked took off. Then behind the deer in the woods i saw a raccoon dog looking in the same direction as the sound came. I aimed and squeezed the trigger... bam and i heard aaaah then he died. We went to search for him with flashlights it was getting dark. Without my scope it would not had been possible to take that shot, it really makes a difference... it collects light my 40 mm burris fullfield 2. There the animal was and the show went thru his left lung and near heart or in hear and thru the right lung.. he did not walk many steps before he died. The animal is quite fat so i guess hes a regular customer at this dining place. The .22 mag is a good caliber for varmint i must say. Se the picture

-- Edited by Edrish on Friday 27th of September 2013 08:46:13 AM

M12Shooter · Guru

8fishermen wrote:
Hey Bob,

All good here. Going to get our first hunt in this coming weekend.

As I thought more on what you wrote, I understood what you were saying but based on the comments of Eric, I am not sure he got a definitive answer of his eye dominance. I have a son that is right handed and left eye dom. He used to lay his head across the stock to try to shoot. I finally realized what he was doing and had him switch to his his left shoulder. It took him a little work to get the trigger control down but you would never know he is not left handed now. Last time we went hunting was a dove hunt. Birds were not flying very well but he killed as many birds as I did (six each). He is 11 now and is so looking forward to crow season.

Are you getting ready for some early orchard hunting?

8, my son is now 9 and just beginning to shoot a shotgun. Not wanting to turn him into a flincher like I started many years ago under my dads supervision, I opted to get a loaner 410 to break the boy in. The shotgun is a Mossberg 500E pump chambered in 410.

As your son, my boy is left eye dominant but right handed. This troubles me greatly as he has been shooting an air rifle and 22 rimfire "Cricket" single shot right handed bolt for several years now. Thought of changing him over to shoot left but thought this would be too confusing.

Strange thing is that 2 weeks ago I had him out and he fired at his first flying bird ever, a crow at at least 35 yards. To my total shock the bird came down like a brick but required a finishing shot. Next day we were out again and I motioned him to shoot at a overhead passer at 30 yards. Again this crow came down but stone dead this time.

This is all with a 2 1/2 inch 410 and 1/2 oz of #8 shot if ya can believe that. Kids never missed a flying bird as he's batting 1000. So at this point I think I should leave him be. It's my opinion that he has not yet developed any bad habits and is likely looking at the target , and not fixating on the front sight.

But maybe switching your boy over was a good thing and I should do this now before he gets set on right shooting? Kind of in a quandary with this. Like to post a pic but its off my wife's phone and not good quality.

Ted

Bob · Guru

Hi Ted,

That is good that at first you get him started with a 410 so he does not feel any recoil. He can move up rather quickly to the 7/8th ounce load (I think they even make a light 3/4 ounce load in 20 gauge now) in a 20 gauge before long. It's to bad a lot of fathers don't have your judgment in regard to starting very light on the recoil.

A 410 with the 3/4 ounce load is a pretty good crow killer up to about 30 yards. My old pal Jerry Byroade (passed away 3 years ago today) from Maryland shot thousands of crows from the 1960's to the 1980's with just a model 42 Winchester pump gun. He just used the 3/4 ounce load of 7 1/2's in the 410.

I can tell you are very proud of your son, the kid is lucky to have you as a mentor.

Bob A.

chip · Guru

Edrish,,,, Welcome to the site!!! I suggest to leave both eyes open and just shoot more. I think if you shoot right handed your right eye will eventually dominate. If you buy a used gun I would go with the Remington. Maybe a supermag and you can cover all basis. If you buy an 870 wingmaster,,, Make sure it cycles with all 3 shells and the pattern is is in the right place. smile

Edrish · Member

Chip, yes i need more practicing i will try with different styles. Lets hope my shooting improves. I have tried calling local hunting clubs and i might get a chance at crow hunting near me. I live in the city and our hunting lands are 500 km away.... so im trying to get more active as a hunter. And im trying also to join crow hunting team in a garbage station not too far away, lets hope i get some action.

Skip · Guru

Erik: I sure hope it would work for you.. more practice keeping both eyes open trying to persuade your right eye to be more dominant as has been suggested. In the meantime, a patch over your left eye is the most functional alternative....IF you use as a patch.. translucent tape.. like scotch tape vs. an eye patch.. or any tape that grossly restricts light from entering your left eye. The translucent tape will allow you to maintain depth perception whereas an eye patch or black tape will not. Shooting at a moving target whose distance from you is constantly changing, being able to determine the distance to target is tantamount!

Skip