Crow Busters Forum

Skip · Guru

Shotshell Selection 3

Big Honkers · Guru

Hi Skip,

Nice write up.

I shoot 1 oz loads exclusively at crows with no complaints. I reload my shells. I'd bet that finding a 1 oz shell might be troublesome in some areas. As you wisely pointed out, folks at a local gun club may help make the search a shorter one.

-- Edited by Big Honkers on Tuesday 14th of January 2014 10:58:19 PM

M12Shooter · Guru

Interesting study and exellent commentary Skip. I had switched to one ounce loads for all of my trap, skeet and clays applications many years ago. Found absolutely no change in my scores IF I do my part. Infact, this past summer I shot all my skeet with 7/8 th ounce handloads in with 8 or 8 1/2 shot and was most pleased with the results.

This past fall I broke from tradition and shot most of my fall crows with 1 ounce loads as these were for once available locally. I must say I was very pleased with Fiocchi 1 ounce "Crusher" loads loaded with 7 1/2's at stated velocities of 1300 fps. They did exactly what the name implies, that is, crush crows at normal range and out to at least 50 yards.

Thanks again Mr. Woody for sharing this information with members of this board and all brothers in arms that share our common pursuit of crow killing!

Ted

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Skip wrote:
and anyone who has seen George Digweed dust clays and crows with Gamebore #7's.. knows he is busting lots of targets a long ranges.

Some good stuff her Skip but to keep things accurate George Digweed's preferred crow hunting load is Kent GameBore Pigeon Extreme, he says so in his first crow shooting video around 3:30. Pigeon Extreme is 1 1/4 ounce #5 advertised to be a screamer at 1450 fps.

English 5's are the same as American #6

http://www.gamebore.com/products/15/12g-pigeon-extreme

http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Thursday 16th of January 2014 10:20:49 AM

Skip · Guru

Yes, he used the larger shot but I believe only for his very long range stuff. The closer in shooting was with smaller shot... like 7's. Is that not correct? I fully appreciate the need for heavier shot to crack a clay bird at long range.. same for crows at long range with "long" being the key word here!!

smile

skip

BigBlackBirds · Senior Member

Skip
I gave up the shotshell reloading business awhile back and just buy the stuff now. i concluded my reloading equipment was getting old, components were expensive and my enjoyment of reloading was non-existant but sucking up my time. Plus I had always bought into the theory that you could reload a premium quality shell at a bargain price. I still kinda buy that if you are shooting registered handicap trap but after spending 5-6 years on the sporting courses watching some of the best shooters around routinely engage those real long targets with 1 oz cheap ammo I've concluded the shell quality isnt the top worry. knowing how to point the gun where it needs to be at the right moment is what really matters. generally the population here in the US hasnt been that excited by the "cheap" european shells yet the europeans continue to have a dominant hold on the sporting and fitasc fields using those cheap shells. i still love a stout 1 1/4 oz flyer load and remington nitros for certain purposes but dont see the need to put up with the price or recoil most of the time.

Recently have been getting 1 oz target loads in 7.5's from Kent, Kemen or Rio depending on what we can get by a pallet for cheapest at the time of order. Most are advertised to run in the low 1200's. I see virtually no practical difference between the loads. They all work the same best I see and that is normally what the tournament sporting shooters i see are using. When shooting clay targets i tend to run them thru a little more constriction than you use, normally .20 in the bottom and .24 in the top and they will still get the job done at 55-60 yards and more if there is lots of belly or top exposed. i dont have a problem going after a crow out past that especially if im going to be hitting the underside.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Skip wrote:
Yes, he used the larger shot but I believe only for his very long range stuff. The closer in shooting was with smaller shot... like 7's. Is that not correct? I fully appreciate the need for heavier shot to crack a clay bird at long range.. same for crows at long range with "long" being the key word here!!
skip

I don't think we can tell from that video Skip. Kent GameBore Black Gold, the leftover shells he mentioned using come in a variety of shot sizes for game and target. But again he said his preferred load is the Super Pigeon Extreme which come in one size and weight. I would not be interested in using that load simply because of the recoil it generates. When he set the world record for breaking clay pigeons he did what many would think is counter intuitive and that is go to a larger shot size when the range was 90 yards and beyond. The heavier pellets not only have more energy their weight makes them pattern better at longer ranges as well.

Skip · Guru

Correct, you cannot tell from his video what shot size he used for closer in shots, I read it in one of the British sporting magazines over a year ago. Bottom line, whatever he used was very effective indeed. The point to my reporting of various typically used clay bird loads was to point out, as others have now, how effective they can be vs. the traditional more familiar shells most of us are used to using. I am just a fan, perhaps more so than necessary, of needing a shell to pass my patterning board "test" before I feel confident using it on crows. Bet Kent, Gamebore, Clever, Kemen, Rio, etc.. are not names that familiar to many of our crow guys. So, more info is better.

skip

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Skip what is your basis for 165 pellets in a 30" circle? You may recall some time back 10gacrowshooter patterned some 7/8 #6 from a full choke 20ga. The load has 197 pellets starting out and he put 139 inside a 30" circle. More importantly he drew the outline of a crow (he's a taxidermist so he knows the size) and 15 of those pellets were body hits.

KenCrow · Senior Member

Skip,

That is an interesting report on your shotshells. Unfortunately, most shooters will not undertake such an endeavour, because it takes much time, effort, interest, and administration to gather just a few scientific facts. But fortunately, a few of us will sweat out such a test, and report to others whom are too lazy to do it, or don't know how. I've done a lot of it, and never regret it.

Since you did not list the number of pellets that were put into the 30" circle, with the Kent target one ounce load @ 1200 fps, the Kent target one ounce load @ 1300 fps, and the Clever one ounce load @ 1280 fps, I wondered if you counted the actual pellets in the 30" circle with these loads, as I wanted to figure approximately what percentage at 40 yards these loads produced.

If you counted the above patterns, would you post the pellets hitting the 30" circle, so I can do my home work?

I recently bought some Nobel Hunting shells, and Nobel Trap shooting shells for $5.25-$5.50 per box, and they perform as good as any comparable shells. Have you tried them?

Thanks...Ken Crotts

Mark · Guru

Skip was kind of enough to spend tome with me and walk me thru this test, otherwise, I too would have never done it..It opened my eyes and showed me what exactly me gun was doing..I switched to LM and my kill ration went up...Its worth it!!

Skip · Guru

Ken: I shot all loads at 55 yards.... not 40 which I know is the "standard" patterning distance. All the shells I tested put an average of 165 or more holes in my 30" circle.

NHCS: "What is my basis for 165 pellets in a 30" circle"? It is the maximum distance I want to be able to kill a crow with some regularity. Putting 165+ holes in that circle is sufficient to kill a crow sized object virtually everytime in my view.

Skip

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Skip wrote:
Ken: I shot all loads at 55 yards.... not 40 which I know is the "standard" patterning distance. All the shells I tested put an average of 165 or more holes in my 30" circle.
NHCS: "What is my basis for 165 pellets in a 30" circle"? It is the maximum distance I want to be able to kill a crow with some regularity. Putting 165+ holes in that circle is sufficient to kill a crow sized object virtually everytime in my view.

Skip

OK, my point being you may have an effective pattern with fewer pellets inside a 30" circle as 137 put 15 in the crows body. However you probably need more pellets because the small shot sizes are running out of velocity and thus energy at that 55 yard marker more so than a larger shot size. It's balance between density and energy at long range, any shot size and choking works on the close ones.

BTW there are roughly 707 sq inches in a 30" circle so you believe the minimum pellet distribution is a pellet for every 4 1/4 sq inches.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Friday 17th of January 2014 01:16:50 AM

Skip · Guru

I agree. Kills beyond 55 yards probably need a larger shot for reasons you state. Beyond 55 yards, pattern density is tough to mange. Heck, it is tough to manage almost beyond 40 yards smile . I decided long ago, to stick to shots at and inside 55 yards. And yes, a bunch of shot seperated by 4" will kill brer crow most everytime.

Skip

Bob · Guru

I ran into a fellow crow hunter out of state in December (his handle is Gimminar on the Bulletin Board) who said anyone who has to shoot crows at that distance either does not know how to hunt them or is hunting very educated birds. In the latter case he feels the same way I do about educated birds, go find some that are not educated and you will have more in the bag at the end of the day.

Bob A.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Spot on Bob, I stink at crow hunting and shooting crows. The antique 10 ga double guns also allow me to compensate for a lack of manhood too.

watch em fall · Senior Member

Yep just like the old Days Of Our Lives show. I can come in once every 3 months and nothing has changed.

Bob · Guru

Watch em fall,

I can't tell you how much your statement made me laugh, that was really funny!

NH is taking what I said to heart, I know he knows how to hunt them. If I were living in his state I would be looking at other areas in the state or perhaps some bordering states in which to get at some less educated birds. He makes enough money to venture out, he let me know about that about a year and a half ago. Everyone's situation is different even if he has the money he might not have the time. You gotta have the time, money and the know how to get consistent shooting throughout the season.

Bob A.

nhcrowshooter · Guru

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bob I appreciate that and your not mentioning the stuff about the ankle bracelet and having to stay close to where I live.

-- Edited by nhcrowshooter on Saturday 18th of January 2014 12:02:37 AM