The area where I hunt is mostly woods with some small fields. So when crows come in they are usually at treetop level, pretty high. So I went and patterned my shotgun today with winchester super speed 6 and remington game load 7 1/2. I've had a turkey choke on my 870 for years so l left that on, I want as much range as I can get. Well, both loads patterned fine at 35 yards and both opened up holes at in the pattern at 45 yards, not good. I'd figured the tight choke would throw a better pattern farther out. And this pattern is under perfect conditions on paper at the shooting range, I'm sure it is much worse under field conditions with stringing and all that. Is this kind of consistent with what others are experiencing? Maybe the choke is too tight. I plan to pick up some 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2 shot when I can find some.
Heck, I have a stoeger double 12 and a browning semi auto 12. Maybe I should look at them.
I have a history of long range precision rifle. Am I expecting too much from a shotgun?
The more you can shoot the more familiar you become with what range exactly works....I have to "re-learn" every season as it's a long ways between November to fall as I don't shoot them in spring so called anymore..basically you don't need to lead them much if at all depending on the distance if they are fighting a head wind. If they are riding a tail wing expect to lead more academically again depending on the distance. In high tail winds expect a couple of crow lengths lead say at 30-40 yards...closer a crow length is sufficient but extremely close like 15 yards? Maybe a 1/4 of the bird length?
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
Both the Winchester and Remington load you used are "promotional" loads sold at discounted prices. They companies save money by using less expensive components, chiefly small amounts of very fast burning powder and soft lead shot rather than magnum lead shot which is harder and deforms less. If you want better performance at those ranges you should reload and keep the velocity down, say 1200 fps. High velocity generally kills patterns of lead shot.
Both the Winchester and Remington load you used are "promotional" loads sold at discounted prices. They companies save money by using less expensive components, chiefly small amounts of very fast burning powder and soft lead shot rather than magnum lead shot which is harder and deforms less. If you want better performance at those ranges you should reload and keep the velocity down, say 1200 fps. High velocity generally kills patterns of lead shot.
What should I look for as I don't reload shot shells? I'm not sure anybody would manufacture a low velocity shot shell with hard shot. I don't shoot that much, so I don't mind paying more for the shells I do shoot.
Edit. After doing some research I'm going to try the remington nitro magnum in #6. Lots and lots of good reviews on patterning at longer ranges from pheasant and crow hunters. Not cheap, but a lot less expensive than starting to reload my own shells.
-- Edited by stone-age on Wednesday 7th of September 2016 01:51:34 PM
Stone-age: You will get some discussion on this.. but the use of magnum shells for crows is ill-advised. Too expensive, too much recoil, etc. Unless you are planning on engaging your crows at 55 yards or longer, consider buying Remington Nitro 27's or Win AA or Federal Gold Medal with speeds at or under 1250 fps. Different chokes perform differently in different guns but I promise a choke no tighter than Light Mod is all you will need to drop crows to 50+ yards with 7 1/2's ( my choice ) or even 8's. NHCS was absolutely correct, the promotional ammo you used starts to show why it is relatively cheap once you exceed 35-40 yards. The ammo I described will extend your killing distance sufficiently.
Stone-age:
I've got to agree with Skip. Magnum shells are going to be expensive and full of recoil. If you just do a little shooting, it should not matter. But if you start burning thru boxes, neither your wallet nor your shoulder will like them.
AA's, Gold Medals, Nitro27's are all premium target shells. They are built for top performance on clay targets probably most specifically trap and work fine on small feathered critters.
There is a downside to those shells and it too is cost. You can get around the cost issue purchasing quantities of cheaper target shells such as gun clubs, estates, top gun, etc. Those shells are built to a lower price point and when using them you might give up a few pellets on a target board or even witness a flat trap target slide thru a pattern. But on field birds you are unlikely to notice any particular difference under normal circumstances with moderate chokes at 20-40 yards where most people truly engage targets. And those shells still work out in the 50-60 yard range if you use modified or IM choke and put the pattern on the target. One of the best sporting clays shooter in the country/world practices here with the cheapest 1oz shells around and he grinds targets at those distances. Those cheap shells will work but won't be able to get as nice of patterns as with premium target shells.
I'd suggest you pull out your turkey tube and replace it with something more open unless you are a seasoned shotgunner. such a choke only provides a small gain at the extreme ranges but the average shooter gives up alot of useful pattern when you really need it at 25-30 yards.
I have shot the promo loads for years and can say honestly that once you have confidence in them they will kill birds just as far as the premium ammo "if you are on the target" I never would have thought this possible 5 to 6 years ago! Do the 27 yard Nitro's pattern better at 40 yards? Yes they do, but I can't tell any difference on live birds up to 55 to 60 yards. 90% of my shooting is under 40 yards so I decided to give the El Cheapo's a try about 6 years ago to save some money on ammo. I was very pleasantly surprised with there performance.
One year many years ago #9 shot was cheaper that day and to my amazement-they worked but my partner and I always shot crows at ranges where you didn't lead them by much. I know this all depends upon conditions. Now I am going to get into trouble; shooting a semi well I got a chance i grabbed what I considered "free" ammo. This was #5 shot high brass. Here is where I get into trouble again; being a close range gunner generally speaking I didn't hit well with those 5's at all..I know -what a dummy! Okay I admit it it but basically it's what you can hit with. Years ago I tagged an old buck crow way out there and I led him at a distance I normally wouldn't shoot a crow at. I was using #4s...see sometimes this dealer had them on sale so I would grab so many. I think I led that crow about 8 feet! He went over the trees smack dab and he traveled dead landing on his back in a railroad track! But one needs a lot of shooting to familiarize their abilities and we all get excited. I learned to temper that. You don't and you will miss a barn door at three feet distance!
I think that is called "buck fever" to you deer hunters. So you might have perfect conditions and cannot hit jack kadiddly. Got to temper that excitement. I think that is part of the problem? And yes I still get it myself. Just not as much thirty years ago.
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
i picked up forty cases of one ounce Estate Super Sports a few weeks back. they were about the cheapest thing around; right at $50. they've served me well over the last few years along with Rios. Usually one or the other are the cheapest i can get ahold of. both brands are pretty popular around here.
up until probably two years ago i was dividing my shells between one ounce for targets and 1 1/8 for birds. but i've given that up. too much hassle and my shoulder no longer is upto the recoil of the 1 1/8 loads even thru the autoloader. given that one ounce loads seem to handle 50-60 yard fitasc targets ok figure they are more than adequate enough for crows. i burnt a case up on pigeons a couple of weeks ago and they were fine but i do think the pigeons seemed a touch stouter than crows.
I replaced the turkey choke with the only other choke I have on hand, remington modified, some difference , not much. And wife is bringing home a box of AA#8s for testing,the only thing they had at the local gun store. In an few days I will have access to other chokes and a better variety of shot shells, a gun store with a skeet range.
Shooting skeet or clay pigeons is nothing like shooting crows-not even close. It's like training to box for the UFC....however if it's legal and you can shoot pigeons that'll work or black birds maybe... if it's legal? Remember if under 40 yards a nose length should work.
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
No question I agree with Bob A.. the promo loads do just fine! He agrees as I do, the premium stuff does pattern better particularly at the longer ranges and I suspect that would add a bird or 3 to your total on any given day that includes decent action. Wal--Mart has the Nitro 27s for $70 a case, Field & Stream sells AA for $55 a case on sale.. and one of my favorites... RIO is $52.40 a case. I can afford this but granted, retail on the premium ammo runs to over $90 a case ( no high brass considered here ) so I just check the "sales" as to when to buy. But as for Bob A ammo requirements... I refer you to his last post on this thread.. the high house shot from station #7 reminds him "most of a shot on crows". Those familiar with a "skeet field" understand he is talking about a shot of less than 15 yards and can be less than 10! Conclusion: Dr. Aronsohn could use rock salt to good effect as so many of his targets are #7 high house!!!