JTNorthArk, in his response to Lefty2Barrels post, Decoy Question/idea," said that Alabama has no stated crow season. This equals crow-carnage all year long!
My fellow Crow Busters, I believe this situation has to violate some kind of Constitutional right for those of us in, as is frequently written in our priceless document the U.S. Constitution, "the several States" which have crow seasons. In Michigan, we have FEB-MAR and also AUG-SEP.
How many others in the US (Ted has told us he can shoot em' up all year in Canada) have no stated crow season(s) and can, therefore, blast away all year?
I was under the impression that the Migratory Bird Act instituted sometime during the 70s, told states that they could only have up to 124 days annually to bust crows and that they could do what they wanted to re. crows, as long as they did not exceed 124 days open season. I recall reading somewhere (?) that a Senator from Hawaii who loved crows (so do we--to shoot) made this happen.
Anybody out there have more history on this?
(BTW, I've read the Crow Busters info page on crow hunting regs and the Migratory Bird Act and it's oddities--but, after all, it's the gummint doing this. I am in favor of Butch's situation in AL where one keeps a log, as there are few of us who hunt more than 124 days per year.)
-- Edited by Old Artilleryman on Sunday 29th of January 2017 10:42:48 PM
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"Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave." -- Andrew Fletcher 1698
The Migratory Bird Act was put in place when we agreed with Mexico to protect the crows and the rest of the crow family if Mexico protected the ducks. I'm sure this isn't EXACTLY how it's stated but it's what happened I think. Don't quote me.
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I literally have no idea what I'm doing. -Me everyday.
The feds said Alabama HAD TO make a season crows. Alabama said fine! "We will make it as no closed season." The feds said "thats to liberal", Alabama said "you made us make a season so this is it...."
Something like that, thats how it was explained to me on the phone from the state office.
Pretty funny.
In South Carolina our season runs from Nov. 1 to March 1 but we can shoot crop damaging birds anytime. Here is the verbiage: Crows damaging crops may be taken at any time using non-toxic shot without a federal permit (50 CFR 21.43).
Awhile back I called SCDNR about the non-toxic wording and was told it was not enforced for crows so it is OK to use lead shot. But having shot crows outside of our regular season, be aware that hunting in the summer is NO FUN around here!
Demi
We have the same verbiage about nailing bandits out of "season." MI law states:
"Crows may be taken outside the open season during hunting hours in compliance with federal regulations, if these birds are causing a nuisance or creating a health hazard."
After looking into this with the DNR a couple of years ago, I found their interpretation is that you have to catch them in the act, e.g., not setting up callers or decoys. And if one wants to go the whole route and fill out a lot of DNR paperwork to do so to be "...in compliance with federal regulations..." then go for it. The solution amongst some of us here is to see a murder in a field (in which we have hunting permission, of course) then stop the truck and do a quick bench rest on the hood with the .17 hornet (or varminter of your choice). Bandits, thinking they are safe due to the distance, keep an eye on you, but by then, it's too late for one of them. This is satisfying, but not real time-effective. A rare setting however.
An old-timer told me just a couple of days ago that they used to do this very thing 40-60 years ago, calling it "crow cruising." That was a time when few landowners minded you stopping and popping a crow on a given piece of land. Too many attorneys now to go at it this way, unless you have permission.
Still wondering about the states that have no seasons and the history of "why?"
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"Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave." -- Andrew Fletcher 1698
"Easy" Need to keep this quite or the powers that be will mess it up. Seriously it's nice to have a "choice" when you want to hunt crows. I honestly don't understand why other States aren't the same on a bird that does so much damage. But what do I know.
Butch
If you want to see how they can mess it up check out our new " deer supplemental feeding/baiting law" our brain trust came up with and don't be drinking coffee or you will spit it all over your computer. They get one thing right (crows) and have messed up just about everything else.
-- Edited by Butch on Sunday 29th of January 2017 02:25:42 AM
Please dont quote me on this but the Alabama season structure was discussed on here many years ago. Seems like while there are no official dates for the season, every hunter "must" keep track of the number of days hunted in a calendar year. If they hunt more than 124 days for crows in a calendar year then enforcement action will be taken.
Impossible to prove how many days a fella hunted crows but they do restrict folks to 124 days....kinda.
...at least that is what I remember of the Alabama discussion from yesteryear.
I read where Mexico said if we protect the ducks-what will you protect in return? Oh that was "easy" now wasn't it? But still for a time Michigan kept it's "open season" as did Vermont. We did too but then things are so unpredictable here we had different hearings on changing the season: needless to say it still didn't get it right specifically the spring season for the reasons of -yet again-blow by too early (rare) or blow by after the season ends...I had a suggestion but it was highly unpopular and didn't take hold. It would have worked when we had a goodly amount here and the good old days but it would have been disastrous in another part of the state. I didn't know what was happening in the other side of the state. Now I understand so for me too it would be a very poor idea.
It is so weird here. In this state. The crows get here here all right well not in my back yard-some one else s' but I never see them coming like the others do...and while mid October or a bit after is prime for the Dover Doubles ; the crows do hang around awhiles instead of running off over the country frequented by the Parker Brothers' fans who do mighty good for a couple days anyways. But here again they got their art down pat while I am still learning...all over again the "new" area on this side of the state of which I am still behind in numbers if it is indeed possible to get that kind of numbers over here. What happened was the locals got the jump on me. But I learned something last year and all that will change....watch and see! My best year was two years ago but i learned...!
Run and gun is impossible now-too many new homes put up and agriculture doesn't pay anymore since the government stabbed our local farmers in the back opting for countries capable of year round agriculture meaning South America and dirt cheap vegetables compared to our people who folded or starve!
I remember south east New York State and was floored to see crows every where in September then I realized their season starts earlier than ours regarding we are a month behind so to speak...I am talking Albany now..they were every where..I couldn't believe it! And at the time this area was far from completely dried up-still had a ways to go but this was nothing compared to New York of what I could see!
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
Your correct, we can choose what time of year to hunt but only the 124 days total. I keep a log of our hunts which averages less than 30 a year. Most hunters do prime time here for crow, (crops, etc.) and if they change it predation permits are easily obtained. Crows are looked upon the same as coyotes,hogs so I don't see any changes in the future. One other thing to note, prime time crow hunting here is also prime time for other more sought after game and fish, so you have to make a choice as what to hunt and thankfully crows are way down on the list if not the bottom. Our seasons are long, Deer- Oct 15 to Feb 10, Rabbit,Squirrel- Sept 15 to Mar 5 then spring Turkey kicks in till end of April all of which I will guess to say 99.9% of hunters here stay after. Add in Ducks,Dove, Hogs and Some great Fishing and you will understand why even the Game Wardens here look puzzled when they find out your actually "Crow Huntin". I hate to be selfish But I hope it stays this way.
We have set dates , About half in the fall and the other in the winter. The split happens during our deer gun seasons, figure they don't want anyone without blaze orange in the woods. Most the crow hunters I see won't be out until after January when everything else is closes. And that's pretty thin.
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If you aim for nothing you'll hit it every time!!!
I understand the "mountain States" don't have that many crows as a matter of habitat...the Pacific Northwest crow is not the "common crow" and I've seen both...but there's no shortage of the Northwest crow at all-far from it. I've personally seen the Pacific Crow come out of their roost over Seattle, Washington. Their calling is the same as the common crow but higher pitched (I know the fish crow by the way and this ain't them.
But so far as the laws go it was largely politics A-Z....here in NH our Fish and Game is more politically motivated than Alabama. Now I like Alabama s' attitude which says to me you don't know what we are all about so let us worry about Alabama.
On standing up to the feds; NH had an incident where the governor Meldrim Thomsom sent out the state police or National Guard in a face to face that the Feds called off around the mid seventies but the point was the State stood up to the feds however more dramatically than Alabama but the states don't always forget who they are and why America came into being.
But it wasn't a Fish and Game issue-can't remember what it was though that warranted sending in the Feds to "straighten" out upstart NH...
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
Believe me when I say our hunting regs are political, Legislature actually sets our seasons. We have an advisory board that makes recommendations, which is controlled by guess what "politics". Down here it's Deer and Turkeys and then everything else. Honestly they don't give a thought about Crows and don't want to, not enough interest in the sport. Which is great for the few of us that hunt crows.
Believe me when I say our hunting regs are political, Legislature actually sets our seasons. We have an advisory board that makes recommendations, which is controlled by guess what "politics". Down here it's Deer and Turkeys and then everything else. Honestly they don't give a thought about Crows and don't want to, not enough interest in the sport. Which is great for the few of us that hunt crows.
Butch
You got it right. The big buck$ (pun intended) up here in the frozen north are with deer, turkey (and waterfowl) hunters. The DNR couldn't care less about crow hunters.
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"Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave." -- Andrew Fletcher 1698
I understand the "mountain States" don't have that many crows as a matter of habitat...the Pacific Northwest crow is not the "common crow" and I've seen both...but there's no shortage of the Northwest crow at all-far from it. I've personally seen the Pacific Crow come out of their roost over Seattle, Washington. Their calling is the same as the common crow but higher pitched (I know the fish crow by the way and this ain't them. But so far as the laws go it was largely politics A-Z....here in NH our Fish and Game is more politically motivated than Alabama. Now I like Alabama s' attitude which says to me you don't know what we are all about so let us worry about Alabama. On standing up to the feds; NH had an incident where the governor Meldrim Thomsom sent out the state police or National Guard in a face to face that the Feds called off around the mid seventies but the point was the State stood up to the feds however more dramatically than Alabama but the states don't always forget who they are and why America came into being. But it wasn't a Fish and Game issue-can't remember what it was though that warranted sending in the Feds to "straighten" out upstart NH...
I'd consider where I live in North Arkansas to be mountainous almost, rock everywhere and we are loaded to the rim with em here. I pull 30 every stand everyday I go out I just don't ever freggin kill one lol and believe me it's super frustrating.
But down south of me a deer lease I'm part of is super super swampy it is a swamp honestly and they don't have nearly as many crows as we do up where I live. I just kinda think there is nothing there for them in the swamp but idk not a biologist or whatever.
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I literally have no idea what I'm doing. -Me everyday.
Believe me when I say our hunting regs are political, Legislature actually sets our seasons. We have an advisory board that makes recommendations, which is controlled by guess what "politics". Down here it's Deer and Turkeys and then everything else. Honestly they don't give a thought about Crows and don't want to, not enough interest in the sport. Which is great for the few of us that hunt crows.
Butch
While I couldn't agree more that deer and turkeys are the biggest thing here, and waterfowl and getting rid of hogs is a big priority. But I hate that there isn't more crow hunters, is difficult to find a decent partner because nobody wants to go crow hunting, I've posted on my local forum and everybody who said they crow hunted and it's just barely anybody and those who do don't take it seriously just doing it to kill something. I love this sport and although I love the amount I would be alright having a few more smart birds and not see as many as long as I knew that there more people hunting and enjoying it like I do.
Spreading the sport is a good thing there are plenty for everybody.
By the way I don't mean to be rude at all with this post so please don't take it that way.
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I literally have no idea what I'm doing. -Me everyday.
No foul, your opinion is well taken. Most folks I've taken wont put the effort to hunt crows, it's not an easy sport plus it's not the "in" thing to do in the hunting community. Most hunters have to choose what to hunt (limited time and resources) and crows aren't on the list.
No foul, your opinion is well taken. Most folks I've taken wont put the effort to hunt crows, it's not an easy sport plus it's not the "in" thing to do in the hunting community. Most hunters have to choose what to hunt (limited time and resources) and crows aren't on the list.
Butch
Exactly, I think maybe not the majority but quite a few want to spend the time they have to hunt hunting something that they get something out of, like meat or a trophy animal and neither really comes with crows.
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I literally have no idea what I'm doing. -Me everyday.
There were too many crow hunters around at one time here utilizing the local farm and burnt it out. They didn't get many to be sure but the crows no longer came around. Not in any numbers to be sure..I think the last known group consisted of about 16 birds with the roost going about 31....mainly they'd blow right by to the wintering feeding grounds...if the winter is mild the ones in this part of the state just hang up north there abouts....at one time I knew all the crow shooters but as the area dried up I wasn't volunteering what I knew...there was an area fairly good further north of here but it dried up after the water melon /pumpkin farm went under due to a divorce and the other old farmers called it a day.
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Top Cat Statutes never replaced or rewrote the constitution!
"1972: An amendment to the MBTA protects an additional 32 families of birds, including eagles, hawks, owls, and corvids (crows, jays, and magpies). Even more species have been added since, bringing the total number to 1,026—almost every native species in the United States. With such additions, the word “‘migratory” in the act’s title becomes largely symbolic—many birds that do not embark on actual migrations are still protected."
Also, here's an interesting and informative website on crow behavior, absent the hysteria of the Audubon site: http://icwdm.org/handbook/birds/AmericanCrows.asp
And a heart-rending site discussing the "poisoning of crows!" The Horror, the Horror! Imagine (come on Bob A., have a heart!) 30 crows killed! I agree. What a waste! These birds could have been shot by one of us. https://corvidresearch.blog/tag/crows-protected-my-law/
This article at least contains a photo of a crow-hugger chick.
This one, "living with Crows" has a section "Preventing Conflicts." I actually have conflicts with with crows that I remedy each FEB, MAR, AUG, and SEP each year. http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/crows.html
Oh well, enough, going to watch the usually boring Pro Bowl.
Good evening.
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"Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave." -- Andrew Fletcher 1698
Need to keep this quite or the powers that be will mess it up. Seriously it's nice to have a "choice" when you want to hunt crows. I honestly don't understand why other States aren't the same on a bird that does so much damage. But what do I know. 
But I hope it stays this way.
or 
or :coinfused: or what have we...